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Old 12-07-2010, 12:05 AM
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LenC LenC is offline
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Originally Posted by SMMAssociates View Post
Len:

Welcome aboard!

Your "order" may have a slight flaw .... (More about that in a second.)

Bear in mind that the size and weight of the gun DIRECTLY affects the felt recoil. A full sized 1911 just feels nicer than one of those micro-45's some people lust after....

10-4, I guess I forgot to specify the FS models. (It's scarry how I am picking up these abreviations!) That is why I am trying to compare the MPs - same basic gun, just different caliber plus I have held the Sigma, the SW in-between model, and the M&Ps and I really liked the feel of the MPs. Just sort of fitted my hand like a glove while the other two did not. Also held a Taurus FS, but it didn't fit all that well.

That said, the .40 is a little "snappier" for most people, and while the effective recoil (which is a measure of comfort and being able to get back "on target" quickly) of the .45 may be a tad higher (especially in a lightweight gun), the .40 may jump farther than you like....

If you're talking about the full sized M&P, for example, I think you'll find the .40 and .45 about the same. The 9mm is just sort of pleasant by comparison. (I just bought an M&P9C, and was shooting it the other night. Then I picked up my M&P40C and.... AARGH.... OTOH, a full sized M&P40 isn't too bad for me - my usual carry is a small, but not "micro" 1911, in .45ACP.)

SO, the recoil issue really is kinda personal.... I just swapped an XD9SC for the M&P9C because my daughter (the 9's were for her) just couldn't stand the Springfield. Overall, I find the M&P a better gun, after adding an Apex DCAEK kit, but that's another story. She's kinda petite....

DCAEK - OK, that is one abreviation I haven't figured out yet,but I will.

If you're an average guy (or gal), the .40 may be OK. I think most people would find the full sized .45 just as OK. The 9mm (again, in the full size gun) just sort of sits there and goes bang ....

There's a great deal of debate on the "must be a '4x'" situation. If we just go with recoil, that simplifies things a little, but the rest of it has to be included. Simplifying is what I am trying to do to understand how to evaluate the recoil part of the equation. With a 9mm, you are more likely going to have to take a second shot to STOP an assailant. The 9mm, should you need to do that, will be easier to get back on target, presuming the gun's not too small. IMHO, if you get a good hit [Seems like that is double-edged sword with "IF" being the key word. If I get the great first shot, under a lot of stress . . . but if I don't (some sort of a high probability) . . . my odds seem to be better on the second shot with the 9mm], with a .4x, you won't "need" that second shot as badly, if at all, but will have more trouble making it. Especially with a .40....

Now, if you shrink the gun - the Compact 9mm, .40, or .45, everything gets worse. Overall effectiveness of the round may decrease slightly, but the 4x's are going to be much harder to get back on target. You may find a .40 out of the running at this point. The smaller you are, the harder this will be....

(You now should realize that "hitting a range" is always the best way to buy a gun, if possible. If you don't feel right with it, you probably won't....) My son, who lives locally, just bought an H&K full size from his older brother, so I will be going to the range with him, but my nature is to research as much as possible ahead of time so I have some idea what I should be paying attention to.

Some years ago, I took my daughter out to a range, with an S&W M22A for her. Picked it up on a trade.... (.22 "Target" pistol. Huge, but not heavy.) After firing a couple rounds from each magazine to be sure the thing was safe, I let her have it. She put about two magazines through the thing and demanded my Commander.... (4.25" slide, but essentially a "Government Model" 1911 if you're not familiar with 'em.) She really can't handle the .45 all that well, but was good enough to get a first shot off....

I also have a curiosity - an S&W CS45. That's sort of a PPK/S in .45ACP. Might have a barrel there someplace, but I can't find it. Recoil is considerable, but the grips resemble the ball on top of a pogo stick, and it's sort of straight back. Even the kid can shoot it well, but she's too small to pull the trigger double-action.... (She's 24 - just kinda tiny.)

It all boils down to a subjective thing - an average-sized individual probably can do well with all of those. I like the .4x's myself. YMMV and all that, but other than the 9mm being considerably softer (presuming the same size/weight gun), the real issue is the stopping power.

(It's also been said that you won't feel the recoil, or even hear the gun, should you actually use it. The major issue is your ability to get a second shot off should it be needed. The 9mm will be easier, but the .4x's will often make it less necessary.) Roger that. My sister-in-law's husband was a LEO in a city near San Francisco for seven years. He got into a shoot-out that developed out of a car stop about 2:30 in the morning. The short story - the BG got the drop on him at the vehicle window. LEO backs away and BG gets out. LEO keeps widening the distance between them. LEO drops the BG's registration and BG diverts his attention to the falling registration. LEO draws and as he said, he kept pulling the trigger until there was not more sound (a semi-auto pistol). Not even one shot hit the BG! BG unloads his weapon at LEO and doesn't hit anything either. LEO - 0, BG - 0. BG takes off in vehicle and LEO calls for cover. The strange thing is that LEO was a regular at the range and shot well, there!

For a nightstand gun, go with a Full Size. The extra capacity may not mean anything, but overall it'll just shoot better, and most people seem to do better with the longer barrel.

For carry, the Compact is probably a better choice. The grip frame is the part that's usually harder to conceal, and the Compacts definitely are smaller there. You lose some capacity, but the spare mag (you should carry one anyway) is going to be smaller .... I was surprised and how easy it is for my son, similar in size to me, to hide the H&K FS under a tee shirt.

If somebody starts to tell you about accuracy, ignore 'em.... Getting six rounds into a dinner plate at 30' is good enough for SD. Here in Ohio if they're further away than that, some lawyer or prosecutor may have you for lunch anyway....

Regards,
See my inline comments above in the body of the quote. I am torn between the 9 mm and the .40, mostly because of what people say about stopping power and an anticipated likelihood of needing that second shot, but on the other hand it sounds like the 9 mm might be more comfortable on the range and thus more likely to get a lot of practice in on it. Then there is the cost of the ammo . . . . etc.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful comments.

LEN
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