I won't try and second guess those gents who have seen the elephant with the 4516. I have had several years of experience with S&W 3rd gen 45's with barrel lengths under 4", so I will share some of my thoughts on the S&W "shorty" 45's.

Fortunately, the two times I've "been there" - I've not had to "done that". Both times were with a sixgun anyway.

Like Leiden, I've qualified with and carried the 4516-3 on/off duty. As many of you who have read about my experiences with the 4516 will know - probably ad nauseum - my 4516-3 is the only 3rd generation pistol I've had to malfunction.

The first malfunction - a few years back, was a mechanical parts failure. The MIM mag catch snapped during an IDPA match. The 4516 WAS STILL FUNCTIONAL and could be fired using the old "teacup" hold. I finished the stage with it, and switched to my 4513TSW back-up.

I replaced that MIM mag catch with a forged steel 4566 mag catch. Despite the rantings of the MIM defenders I see MIM as the cost cutting/profit generating/cheap pot metal junk that it is. Ever notice even the most vociferous MIM defenders always say; "MIM is <insert your favorite percentage>% as strong as forged parts!" Notice that they never claim MIM is "100% as strong as forged parts". I noticed that too.

At the last qualification I requalified with the 4516-3 for on/off duty again. During the day/off duty portion, while firing Winchester Ranger 230 grain RA45T, I started to experience a failure to feed on the sixth round in the mag. TAP RACK back in the game. Troubled me though as I had never had a malfunction before.

The 4516-3 wasn't very dirty, was properly lubed, and had less than 1000 rounds on the dual recoil spring. I figured it was a mag problem. A quick run through the SRT "playground" confirmed it. One mag had a spring weak enough that the slide was out running the mag - at the sixth round up.

I've not had any failures with my 4513TSW's or PC Shorty 45. I've shot IDPA games with the 4513TSW's. While not training, IDPA does provide good gun handling practice. While its not "for real" - adrenaline coming out of your ears - shoot for serious, it does present unusual shooting positions and in my case quite a few less than perfect draws/grips.

I've also shot the 4516-3 in the IDPA games and not experienced a malfunction - other than that already discussed.

I think the early 4516's - the no dash variants were more susceptable to malfunctions than the later variants. Improvements in the magazines (followers & springs) the beefier slide (cured the slide inertia problem) and the switc to dual recoil spring set-up made for a reliable shorty 45.

Switching from the factory OEM grips to Hogue makes a vast difference, to me, in the handling of the 4516 as well. Even newbs have failed to experience a stoppage while shooting my Hogue gripped 4516-3. This is a pistol that is less susceptable to limp wristing than other short 45's, IMO of course.

I am most appreciative of the LAPD guys sharing their experiences with us here on this board. Nothing like real life experiences to show you what can/will may happen "out there".

I will continue to carry the 4516 and other short 45's when conditions call for it and WILL be mindful of my recoil springs and mag springs too! Regards 18DAI.