Hoppes #9 is probably the oldest, and most commonly used gun cleaner out there. If S&W, a long time gun manufacturer, and supposed quality one at that, cannot figure out a way to use a finish that will not be damaged by such an iconic and trusted cleaner, then there is something wrong. I've used the newer cleaners, and I still always feel the need to use Hoppes. Guns just don't feel clean to me if they don't have that Hoppes smell.