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Old 12-28-2011, 05:21 AM
OlympicFox OlympicFox is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Quote:
DO NO HARM
It's all well and good to think about the ability to do a double-tap, but the bigger priority needs to be "Do no harm".


When the SHTF and the pucker factor is in full orbit, a long & heavy trigger pull is the best insurance there is against pulling the trigger prematurely and/or unintentionally. If I have to draw my gun in a real deal situation I want that last ditch chance to not pull the trigger available to me, just in case the bad guy turns and runs or an innocent person gets in the way or . . .

In most defensive shooting cases, the bad guy is less than 10 feet away - no need to aim, just draw and shoot. At those distances I can get off a first shot with one of my DA/SA just as fast if not faster than I can with my 1911's because there's no need to mess with a thumb safety - draw, rotate, shoot. Period.

As for getting that double tap?

Personally, I can double-tap with my Sig P226s just as well as I can my 1911s. I'm a bit slower with the Kahr K9 with its much longer NYPD trigger and definitely faster with my M&P 40L, but then that's with soft competition loads in a competition-prepared gun - in no way a proper defensive gun.

What slows me down more than the DA/SA trigger is recoil. The heavy Sig P226 Elite SS shrugs off recoil like my Lab sheds water. OTOH, the 27 oz Dan Wesson CCO loaded with Ranger-T +P or the Kahr PM40, also loaded with Ranger-T, are a whole lot tougher to shoot a good double tap with.

So, I prefer DA/SA guns for concealed carry over SAO or striker-fired. And I'll take the long trigger pull of a Kahr over the short trigger pull of a Glock,M&P or XD on a carry gun.

Yes, it is true that it's a challenge to master the DA pull on the first shot, but it's not an impossible task.

It's also important to remember that just because that DA/SA gun came with a 10#/4# trigger pull out-of-the-box, doesn't mean that it has to stay that way.


My M.O. on a new defensive gun is to:
  1. Break it in with 200-500 rounds,
  2. Send it to the manufacturer's custom shop for a trigger job and reliability work.
  3. Re-test with my favorite carry ammo
  4. Periodically use my carry gun in IDPA competition using my carry holster. That can be enlightening!


Now, some folks scream bloody murder when you suggest that they should send in their brand new RammelFrazzel 40 back for a trigger job. Sheeeesh, why didn't the manufacturer do that in the first place!?!? Well, because that costs money and 99% bought an inexpensive gun in the first place. Sigs aren't cheap guns, but they still have to compete on price in the market, so action work comes extra. Ditto for reliability work. I figure my butt is worth the extra bucks.



Here's a comparison of the before and after trigger pulls on three of our Sig classic P-series. Note, the two P226's went to the Sig Custom Shop. The P6 is a work in progress that I'm doing myself; different springs and a short trigger so far.

  • Sig P226R:
    • New: DA: 11.2# SA: 7.9#
    • After: DA: 7.1# SA: 3.7#
  • Sig P226 Elite SS:
    • New: DA: 8.9# SA: 4.2#
    • After: DA: 7.4 SA: 3.1#
  • Sig P6
    • Before: DA: 14.5# SA: 5.7#
    • After: DA: 9.2# SA: 5.0#

By comparison, here are the pulls on a wide assortment of our carry guns in alphabetical order . . .

  • Dan Wesson CCO #1: 3.6# SAO
  • Dan Wesson CCO #2: 3.9# SAO
  • Kahr CM9: 6.3# Striker Fired (SF)
  • Kahr K9: 5.6# SF
  • Kahr PM40: 6.0# SF
  • Kimber Ultra Carry II: 5.4# SAO
  • Sig P232 (brand new & unfired): 10.6# DA / 3.6# SA
  • Sig P238: 7.1# SAO
  • Springfield 1911-A1 Trophy Match: 3.7# SAO
  • S&W 3913LS: 10.4# DA / 7.1# SA
  • S&W 3913NL: TBD
  • S&W M&P 40L (new): 6.0# SF
    • For competition only after Apex Comp-AEK: 2.7#


So, it seems like most defensive pistols come with 5-7# triggers. The glaring exception are the nicer 1911's - scary light and fast right out of the box. The DA trigger on my Sigs are down to just over 7# and a whole lot smoother than any polymer gun's trigger, so there isn't much of a disadvantage to that DA on the first shot. OTOH, the follow-up shots are almost 1911-like with a 0.147" reset and a smooth 3.1# pull. Note: I used to have an M&P 9c for carry but decided that its trigger while technically safe, was too easy to operate unintentionally under stress. The same applies to the competition.



Bottom Line: Like everything in life, carry guns are compromises: weight, size, fire power, simplicity, reliability, and safety - both real and perceived. Oh, and a dash of ego.




Real world situations rarely allow time for 'thinking'. The best I can hope for is to have enough time for doing, and to not do something I'll live to regret.



That DA/SA trigger is the best device available to prevent the shot I didn't really want to make. A DA/SA gun with a good trigger job will give me a trigger that's ideal for defensive use.



Second choice is the long and silky smooth trigger of the Kahrs. Some Rugers like the LC9 are similar, albeit not as smooth.
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