Fast forwarding through 8 years of truth & denial, the Remington .38 LSWCHP +P from my 2" barrel revolver penetrated 12"-14" in bare gel with .58" expansion. In gel with 4 layers of denim it penetrated 11" to 12" with same expansion. It expanded every time in the bare gel and it expanded more times than not into the denim. On the rare occasion when it didn't expand after the denim it penetrated 16"-18" which is still ok. So with Hornady’s failure to fire’s and Speer claiming that their 38 +p 135 gr Short Barrel “EXCELS THROUGH FBI PROTOCOL TESTS” only because it does a penetration in bare gel of 11” and in IWBA Heavy Clothing [denim] of 13” I will stick with the LSWCHP's. They are ready to go right out of the barrel, no fuss, no muss, no worry. I got them in my 2" revolver and my 4" revolver.