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Old 05-19-2014, 12:38 AM
Duckford Duckford is offline
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I'm going to disagree with Mr. TexasRaider. The simple fact is, the Miami Shootout is talked about much, and was the catalyst for change to both a larger caliber and the end of the revolver era, but that the changes of both were not directly a result of the shootout, but rather the major event that brought finality to changes that were in the work for several years. The FBI didn't just have the Miami incident and the next day dropped the .38 special, 9mm, and revolvers in one giant turn around, the truth is the .38 special and the 9mm had been under performing for decades, and were slated for replacement. The revolver wasn't a big factor in the shootout, but the FBI took the shootout as a convenient time to switch to auto loaders exclusively.

So to criticize one shootout, even if it was the one associated with the changes of both caliber and pistol type, is to avoid the larger issue of two calibers that have had under penetration issues for their entire existences. Miami wasn't the first time either cartridge had failed, not by a long shot, and both the .38 special and the 9mm have failed in extraordinary circumstances again and again. Real life combat is not shooting at targets standing still and not firing back, and sometimes shots must be made at odd angles and must penetrate deep to kill, and the replaced cartridges had failed one time to many. Both of the real life records of both cartridges is horrendous in the harder real life situations, and deserved to be replaced.

The truth is, Dove's first bullet was perfectly placed for the angle, and in truth, the 9mm did fail in that scenario, there is no way around that. Some 9mm defenders have often times tried to claim that a different cartridge wound't have made a difference, but the autopsy and reports make this an outright fabrication, the bullet path was in direct line to Platt's heart, and other pistols would have ended the fight. These are facts. Dove made the perfect shot at the angle he had, and it was the cartridge, not Dove, that failed that day. Again, this is not the first time a 9mm has failed to penetrate and stop attackers.

The truth is, handgun rounds are poor rounds, low in power, weight, and sectional density. They have a knack for stopping short of arteries and organs, they cozy up to bones instead of breaking them, and generally fail in ways that would surprise you. A poor angle, a leather jacket, some obstacle, and the standard pistol cartridge runs out of steam and fails. Since shallow penetration is the most common of failures, it SHOULD be the major concern of self defense gunners, LEO, ect. Shot placement is an easy thing to tout in perfect circumstances, but in real life sometimes you need enough penetration, enough power, enough bullet, to get through enough tissue and obstacle to get the job done. The whole 22 vs. 44 magnum is ridiculous, as the 44 can stop an attacker behind more obstacle, punch through bones and tissue in real life shots that have to be made that the 22 would fail at.

That being said, the 110 treasury round is a complete joke, considering that there are vastly superior rounds available. The round chronically under penetrates in a revolver that under penetrates. As said before, the only reason such a round was used was due to 20% gel tests and the junk science of temporary cavities created in gel tests, which proved to be worthless in handgun results in real life. The result was a round that was neither devastating or penetrating, and the round was quickly replaced by many services and departments because of its poor real life results. The treasury load was the representation of a fad, and now the round's only legitimate place in the world is to be discussed on forums such as this.

The range queens will always claim that any real life failures are ALWAYS the fault of poor marksmanship, no matter how difficult the situation, no matter what circumstance. No matter what happens, the range queens will always claim that a little more time on the range and taking 20 more seconds to make the shot would have saved the day and it is all your fault, and never the weapon or cartridge. Then they get up and proclaim that the lighter rounds are always superior in every case, because they are easier to shoot, and reason that a cartridge that treats them well on a leisurely range day must be the best cartridge to take into the fray. The same people who proclaimed that law enforcement only needed 32 Long, and then said 38 special was terrific, even after the learned failures of the Maori uprisings and other imperial battles that showed the superiority of larger rounds. The same people argue to this day that you need to shoot lighter loads, smaller calibers, and still ignore real life results.

If I'm going on to long its because I'm getting a little tired of every poor bullet, poor load, or smaller caliber being defended by the same, tired, worn out lines about how its always the shooter's fault, go ahead and carry 22 shorts in a derringer because its all the same. People take a lot of time and energy to take real life results and rationalize reasons to ignore them to believe what they wish to believe, and to many people defend what they would like to shoot instead of what they should shoot. The 158 lswchp won out for a reason, and the 110 disappeared for a reason. The treasury load should remain a lesson in junk science, poor design, and left as a memory of the 1980's.
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