3.5grs of Red with a 158gr Lswc out of my 686 6" is my most accurate loading for this weight bullet with a cci standard primer, that does 753 fps.

In my J frame snub the same bullet will clear the muzzle with no problems at just 571 fps with either Bullseye or IMR 4227 powders.

I do use a medium crimp on my loads, though............
my bullets do not turn after loading !!