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Old 10-21-2015, 11:43 PM
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Dennis The B Dennis The B is offline
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
A good friend of mine is a retired FBI agent and the ammo was the smallest error of the shootout. One agent had his gun stuck under his leg and when the cars crashed he lost it under the seat and never found it during the shootout. The shotguns were in the trunk and difficult to get to. Those who were using revolvers were mostly shooting 38, although they were .357 revolvers and could have been using .357. Several of the agents weren't wearing body armor (or at least not secured. I believe Agent Grogan did not have his strapped on, just thrown over his torso). And 9MM ammo has sure Come a long way since 1988.

Not speaking ill of the agents involved. They did the best they could under the rules they had at the time, but to blame the outcome on the 9MM ammo that only half of them were carrying, with the other half shooting 38 special ammo, at least one of whom only had a 5 shot j frame, is a bit of a stretch. Not gonna win a gunfight carrying revolvers when the bad guys have carbines and shotguns, and nothing to lose in using them.
The standard issue revolver ammunition at the time, was the Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P round. .357 Magnum ammunition had to be approved for agents to use it.

The tactics used by the FBI for a felony stop left a lot to be desired, and it's one reason why things headed south so quickly. The agents improvised the entire stop, and it gave the two BG's an opportunity to start the shooting.

It's also clear that the FBI wasn't expecting a shootout that morning. They were conducting "rolling stakeouts" on information that the two BG's may rob one of the local banks. That split the FBI teams.

Ammunition was a factor, in that the 9mm ammo used was the 1st generation Winchester 115gr Silver Tip. The Silver Tip had a reputation for being under-powered. The +P ammo fired out of either a J frame S&W, or the Model 13, will not perform to its potential because the revolver barrel is a bit short to get maximum velocity for expansion.
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