Wow, a lot of bad info in an otherwise good thread.

As to the issue of the number of FBI gunfights and a supposed poor track record - I've been an agent for 24 years, and a firearms instructor for most of that time. The Bureau averages about 10 shooting incidents a year - admittedly not a lot for 14000 agents, that's still a couple of hundred in my time. I'm not aware of any that we "lost". We've had agents killed, but good guys are going to pay the price sometimes. All law enforcement agencies lose guys, but it doesn't mean they lose gunfights. I do know we've killed a hell of lot more of them than they have of us.

4/11/86 has been beaten to death on this and every other forum on the internet. I came in five years after it happened, and even then there were lots of lessons learned still being worked out and applied. To the general public (and especially the gun world) the whole thing was blamed on one 9mm Silvertip launched by Jerry Dove. Inside the Bureau there was massive soul searching and changes in tactics, training, and equipment. Its been almost 30 years, and we've arrested a lot of bad guys since then, without any similar occurrences. That would have played out a lot differently today - a SWAT or HRT roll most likely - due to the sacrifices made and lessons learned that dark day.

The "agents couldn't handle the mighty 10mm" thing has somehow gained internet credence. I've said it here before - no "full-power" 10mm ammo was ever issued to agents. The ammo gurus started with the 10mm cartridge and a ton of ballistic gel, then boosted the velocity of the 180 grain bullet until it did what they wanted. Then they stopped and said Hey, Federal - make us a few million of these.

The original idea was to have a semi-auto version of the .38/357 combo. Regular 10mm for everyday use, with the option to go to more powerful rounds should the need arise. The 1076 came and went and that angle was never developed. The .40 came about, and we adopted it.

Now the ammo gurus say the 9mm will do whatever the .40 will, and its cheaper. So for the next go 'round we'll get 9mms.

Guys who have .40s will keep .40s, unless they want to switch. New guys will get 9mms. As .40s retire or break, they'll be replaced by 9mms.

Doesn't matter to me, my Sig is grandfathered in, and I'll reach my Bureau expiration date before they drop it.

As an agent, I appreciate all the interest generated by our guns. But the Bureau doesn't issue guns or ammo to other agencies, so everyone is still free to buy whatever guns and ammunition they want to use.

We still have 10mms, by the way. They hold 30 rounds and shoot full auto.

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”