That is probably so, Gary. However, they did raise the bar when they came out with the HST line. All the penetration videos I could ever find showed the 9mm version opening completely whether shot through a tee shirt or the standard four layers of heavy duty denim. I have been watching the development of handgun hollowpoints for a long time, and even the gold standard rounds like gold dots would sometimes get tripped up once fabric clogged the cavity. It seems like the HST doesn't get bothered by it.