Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
The topic of moon clips seems to come up often, yesterday I did look at the lcr 9 at a shop and really it was nice. The counter guy who claimed to have fired one a lot did say that the recoil was definitely there but this was to be expected with the performance of the 9mm AND he commented that the revolver can be used without the clips saying at least half will shake out and the other can be taken out quickly with only your finger tips. IF this is the case what is the big deal about 'clips'? these guns are after all for self protection.
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GSN, what did 'counter guy' say about the 9mm being a tapered case and inevitably backing out and locking up the cylinder? A 9mm without moon clips is virtually impossible without very specific engineering in the gun design which the revolver platform has rarely seen; and, when it has, it has added significant complexity.
You have to figure out how to extract the cases - This actually saw an answer under an Israeli - S&W contract years ago where an extractor assembly for rimless cartridges technology was developed. Instead of the usual "star" type extractor (see picture), the S&W Model 547 featured a horn-shaped extractor with small beryllium-copper spring tabs that grab the rim of each case. This assembly is for extraction only; the cartridges headspace on the mouth. The device is reported to have worked really well; so well in fact, very early on Israel cancelled the contract and the remaining 10,000 plus weapons were sold by S&W to the general public. However, most owners do seem to love them.
But don't even think about that working with a modern 929 or 986 without moon clips.
The second problem I mentioned before, the tapered cases will back out and lock up the cylinder. This issue killed the Model 53 revolver if I'm not mistaken. S&W overcame this in the above mentioned 547 by adding a pin (above the firing pin) that prevents the fired case from backing up, more complexity and expense and another part to fail. It was an expensive solution but one that has reportedly worked well.
The 547 also had a floating pin. While this is common now to most new S&W revolvers, it was unique at that time.
Here's a forum discussion about that revolver:
Contemplating a model 547 9mm revolver.
In the second picture is the same Ruger snub in .357 and then 9mm. Notice the 9mm is cut for moon clips. Because it has to be or you carry a dejammer.
So even living with moon clips I love the idea of the 9mm revolver. The dramatic increase of ballistic performance of the 9mm over the last ten years as well as costing two thirds of similar .38/.38+P rounds. For me, the somewhat ballistic advantage offered by the 9mm over the .38 ammo isn’t worth the trade-off in recoil in a light-frame scandium J Frame; however, in a steel frame and especially a 37 oz. N Frame (627) snub or 37 oz. L Frame (586 L-Comp) snub, the 9mm would be easy to shoot painlessly. I like moon clips for defensive carry and competition, but having to use them for everything is extra hardware and cost.
Unfortunately, for a number of reasons, with the S&W 9mm in a revolver it remains a bit of a work in progress, but if you want to be an early adopter and don't mind the possibility of having to dial some things in, it is a great way to go. I just want a snub nose N or L frame, and I personally would love to see the 627 2.625" barreled UDR or a 586 L-Comp in 9mm, at that point I may be in with the 9mm, because as Glock knows, 9mm is an an exceedingly good cartridge in a short barrel.