I didn't say it would be as good or better than a .45, but the philosophy behind the idea of the .45 obviously works and works well and maybe that same philosophy would make a 9mm CLOSER to what a .45 does that would make it a more effective round than it already is.

I guess I'm a little different from most reloaders. I do have pet rounds that I've loaded repeatedly, but a lot of my time is testing new rounds just to see how they shoot. It is also economical, and I use .30 110 gr carbine bullets in my rifle because they are cheap as dirt. I'm on a tight budget and can't buy a gun for every kind of shooting I want to do.

Believe me, I'm not planning on giving up my 124 XTPs any time soon unless something is proven all the way to doing a great job in the field. Even that is a choice, as would probably be any new combo that came in the picture, many people wouldn't buy it, as the 158 gr. 9mm isn't a hot seller. Like many other people, I compromise and try to stay away from 115 and 147 grain jhps unless for a special purpose. Though I'm a middle of the road guy, my alter ego wants to explore the edges.

I've made extremely reduced 30-06 because they are fun as the dickens to shoot, and an extremely soft 9mm to introduce my wife to the 9mm. In that case was a heavy (147 grain) bullet for various reasons, including operating the action. I was suggested to me to try reduced (well under the book) loads of Acc #7. Besides working like a champ in producing a soft and reliable round, it was an amazingly accurate combination. People might say, well go get a 6mm rifle but that isn't getting the full range of potential out of any gun. It doesn't cost me anything to make the kinds of rounds I want to shoot out of any gun.

As has been said, yeah, the 9mm may well be self limiting. But I want find out where that limit is in getting a heavy projectile to go at least 830 fps out of a typical 9 mm gun without overloading it beyond the range that it was designed for. It may not even be a '+P' type round.

I'd like to thank everybody again who participated, lent ideas and gove thoughts on possible limitations, even acceptance by the industrly. I think we've beat it as far as we can until we get some data. If you have a brainstorm, though, don't hesitate to bring it up. =8^ )

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"