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Old 03-11-2017, 01:48 PM
walkin' trails walkin' trails is offline
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I'm not a huge .380 fan, but will concede that under certain conditions with reliable pistols, there is a place for them. I've only owned one .380 pistol, a Walther PPK/S, and that was years ago. I was working for an organization that, while it allowed personally owned handguns to be carried for work, did not allow BUGs or anything smaller than a Glock 19. I wanted a smaller, reliable pistol (the G26 was not manufactured at the time) that could conceal so well no one would notice a tell-tale bulge, and was reliable. I would also carry it off duty when I was out running. One of the guns I purchased for the occasion was a Walther PPK/S. Aside from being almost as big and heavy as a G19, its accuracy was horrible at anything greater than 10 yards. While I now realize that pistols like that were not made for 25-yard bulls eye competition, I was still perturbed by the fact that I was just wasting ammo when shooting at greater distances. While the accuracy issues may have been me rather than the gun, I sold it to buy something else. Ironically, the pistol I kept going back to during that period was a Beretta 21A in .22LR. I'd had one since my college days, and could shoot it pretty well. I got in a lot of practice because .22 ammo was cheap. I loaded it with Remington 40 grain solid point "golden bullets," because the hollow points of the day would likely not open or penetrate sufficiently out of a 1.5 inch barrel - an argument still being tossed about when discussing .380 defensive ammo.

I've never seen the end results of actual .380 shootings, but do try to stay current on the data provided by current matter experts, including Greg Ellifritz and Mossad Ayoob. While there have certainly been cases similar to the "hypothetical 6'7", 300 lb" attacker being stopped by one or a string of small caliber bullets, there have apparently been enough cases where the small caliber rounds did not stop the attack. Similarly, there have been cases where .38s, 9mm, .40, etc failed, but actual successful results have been more consistent. There are those members of the human race who, if shot somewhere on the body, even in a nonlethal extremity, will decide they didn't want it to come to that and stop what they're trying to do to the victim. Then again, there are those who have seemed impervious to even multiple shotgun hits. From what I've read, except for well documented law enforcement uses of deadly force, it is harder than thought for researchers to properly categorize data from shootings by bullet type (i.e. Gold Dot HP, Hydra Shok, etc).

As my opinion is long winded, I will say my take on this debate is that shot placement is certainly the key, while using certain calibers and bullet configuration is also an essential element to stopping an attack.

For a number of years, I was the firearms instructor responsible for an area task force. While my employer did not allow its own people to carry .380s, some of the task force members from other agencies did. They were intended to be used primarily as BUGs or for undercover. Those .380 pistols I've seen and worked with were the Walther PPKs, Ruger LCPs, Kel Tec 3AT, and the Glock 42s. In my observations, the Walthers were selected and authorized back when the PPK was considered the best of the breed if one wanted a concealable .380 semi auto. The PPKs I saw on the range, however, were seldom reliable, owing mainly to the fact that they were old, had not received consistent maintenance, and the users were never properly trained on how to shoot and maintain them. Those who carried .380s either had to get the ammo from their departments, or buy it themselves. The next issue I saw was that during ammo shortages, it was hard for departments or individuals to come up with the required number of rounds to complete the mandated qualification course. Furthermore when a shooter was not as competent with a small pistol as he/she was with a full sized duty pistol, there would be instances where more than one attempt to qualify might be needed.

The third thing I have observed based on that task force experience was that many of the folks carrying or wanting to carry the .380s did so out of convenience rather than genuine need. That was always pretty obvious when someone would ask me for my opinion about a certain type of pistol. Most cited wanting something to carry off duty rather than for a BUG or undercover (or even on duty beause they didn't like carrying anything heavy). While having some gun is better than no gun, you have to have something with which you can competently defend yourself, regardless of the package. If anyone asked me five years ago, I would tell them to buy a Glock 26 or 27, or a S&W 5-shot. Now days, I will recommend a Glock 43 or a Shield. My reasoning is that you're starting to get into "enough" gun in a package that most people can manage to conceal if they think it through.

For anyone who still wants a .380 for carry, the guns I've played with that have seemed to work reliably (for the amount of time I've observed on the range them or shot them myself) are the Ruger LCP and the Kel Tec 3AT. I would prefer the Ruger over the Kel Tec, mainly due to ergonomics. Going back to my earlier reference to 25-yard accuracy, I have found that I could actually put all my rounds fired at that distance into the scoring area of a "Q" target with a Ruger LCP. Still, I think a better measure of performance would be something such as a "up" drill fired from concealment at close quarters distances no further out than seven yards, with all hits in something resembling an "A" zone, with off line movement included, and executed as rapidly a possible.

The Glock 42s I've seen either exhibited 100% reliability with quality ammo, or jammed consistently with cheap junk. I have no experience with the Bodyguard .380, but haven't heard anything particularly bad about them. If I had to have a .380, it would either be a Glock 42 or an LCP, both properly broken in, loaded with the Hornaday hollow point round that the subject matter experts seem to concur is consistently most effective. After all, a .380 is a center fire cartridge that is consistently more effective than a .22 rim fire, and does throw a bigger bullet than a .25 or .32.

Last edited by walkin' trails; 03-11-2017 at 01:52 PM.
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