Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944
Now there have been a few replies let's clarify some points. First, notice that everyone who has a reasonable degree of experience, not just tried it once, using SRP in place of SPP indicates their experience mirrors mine.
The CCI SRP was used as they have a "reputation" for being a harder primer. Whether they are or not is arguable when comparing lot-to-lot. Any gun that has a problem lighting any primer has a problem that should be addressed. Usually someone tinkered with it to lighten the trigger pull.
A striker fired pistol was used since they supposedly have lower firing pin energies than revolvers or hammer fired pistols. The photos were posted to demonstrate that striker/firing pin energy in at least this Browning is fully adequate. I am surprised no one even mentioned this!
The old saw that changing primers can radically change pressure of a specific load is easily disproved by the use of the chronograph. Overly cautious wording of loading manuals notwithstanding that give such dire warnings are fully disproved by the fact that with identical loads the different primers give statistically equal velocities! Same load, same velocity, same pressure, just that simple. Ask any engineer in any of the ballistics labs and if pressed for a straight answer they will tell you the same thing!
Finally some anecdotal evidence. Several years ago a member of this forum made a claim that he knew a woman who worked at CCI and had access to engineering data for their primers. He said he had asked her directly if there was any difference in cup hardness, thickness, pellet weight or composition among the various primers of the same size, (presumably small). He stated that the answer he had received was that there was no difference, they were identical except for packaging! I have no recollection who it was. Perhaps if he sees this he would be so good as to confirm his statements! Why are different primers sold? Because people expect there to be specialization and would shy away from any manufacturer who simply sold "Small Primers" for any use while others made "specialized primers" for specific applications. Look at how many question Winchester for making only one Large Pistol primer for both standard and magnum cartridges! They can't believe this can work.  Perhaps the greatest difference in primers is found in the expectation of handloaders, and not in the actual manufactured product! |
Sneaky!!! Setting people up for failure.
I'm glad you brought up cci primers. They are an excellent example for discussion. The parent company owns both cci and federal. Now we have 2 different primer mfg's made by the same parent company to discuss. It now becomes:
1. Should I put all my eggs in 1 basket and make the same primers for everything?
2. When raw material comes into the plant should I use as much of the same product as possible or order/buy lesser amounts for specific products?
The 2nd question is the easiest to answer. If a machine is setup to run a specific product then a company will use that product for everything they can.
I see no reason for either federal or cci to not use the same materials for their small pistol primers. As you can clearly see cci and federal choose to use different thickness of materials for their primers. Note that the federal standard primer is made with the thinnest material of the 2 companies. That's important!!!!
Question #1 goes to the heart of the question about primers. Why would anyone with the ability to be a major player in the reloading industry with 2 different brands put out the same product when they can corner the market with 2 different products???
Making the same product doesn't make since from a business standpoint.
federal vs cci primers:
Anyone with a revolver that has a strain screw can test primer hardness. Simply back the screw off and hit the loud button. Eventually 1 brand of primer will go bang and the other brand will not. For some odd reason the cci primers quit making noise long before the federal primers. It's been that way for decades in my ppc revolver. Every time I've tried to use cci primers and hit the loud button, nothing happens. Yup, federal gold/match primers for the ppc revolver.
Well enyone that can read can clearly see that the federal primers a 1/1000th's of an inch thinner than the cci primers. But does it stop there???
Absolutely not!!!
There's this thing called material hardness, don't know if you've ever ordered any rolls of sheet metal. But they ask dumb questions like do you want that roll dead soft, 1/4 hard, 1/2 hard or a specific hardness.
Well here we go again:
Why would a major player in the reloading/munitions industry that has 2 extremely large company's put all their eggs in 1 basket and produce the same products???
They wouldn't!!!
Things like federal 223rem brass is soft and I don't get as many reloads out of them as other brands.
I use federal primers in my tuned revolvers because they go bang and other brands don't.
Federal 22lr brass is a lot softer than cci 22lr brass.
These common themes keep popping up on the innerweb every day. Don't think that the federal 22lr brass is softer than cci/rem/ww/aguila/rws/eley? Try making these with 22lr brass, you'll find out real quick.
The federal cases take less force to turn into jackets and have less springback. They end up taking a push rod that's 1/1000th's less than the other brands to form them into jackets. Ya there's that 1/100th's thing again!!! If you don't use a smaller push rod the federal jackets will stick to the rod and their a pain to take off.
The question becomes:
Why would federal order rolls of sheet brass that are of 1 hardness to duplicate what cci is doing for primers. And order another/softer roll of softer brass to form their shell casings with???
Some say all sr/sp are the same and that it's the reloaders expectations.
I say when you use a firearm that can't tell the difference, it doesn't matter.