Drivers license/CCW connected?

NYlakesider · Mar 23, 2017

ladder13 said:
On the re-cert form they ask for your DL#. Come Jan 2018 the SP and anyone else hooked into their database will have a definite link between DL and PP.
Maybe that's why the Sgt smiled.

I saw that, though they will have to wait until about a month before the time limit is over before many people will send in that re-cert paperwork. Even our local sheriff said to do that, just send it in by "reply requested mail"

cmansguns · Mar 23, 2017

A big thanks to Chuck24 (see post # 70 above) for correcting me on Virginia "shall inform" or "must inform" State Law. He is absolutely correct as Virginia law actually states: " 18.2-308 (H)...The person issued the permit.....shall display the permit and a photo-identification.........upon demand by a law-enforcement officer."

Obviously the operative words are "upon demand".

I probably will not change my own "up front" mention of my permit if and when stopped, but Chuck24 is correct in that in Virginia, one is not required by law to do so unless asked by a LEO.

franzas · Mar 23, 2017

cmort,

I agree with all of your points. Well said.

-Informing an officer does nothing to curb crime. I like my privacy.
-Police do not have a right to abuse their power.
-I'm glad the guy was acquitted and I hope he sued.
-Training requirements are an infringement on our rights. If I can legally own a firearm, then I should be allowed to carry it.

Jessie · Mar 23, 2017

I realize this thread is a little old, but since it hasn't been locked down, I wanted to mention something that reading all the above brings to mind.
First off, I don't care one way or the other about informing during a stop. If it helps the officer, fine. Happy to let them know.
What I don't understand is, aren't these officers approaching ALL stops considering a worse case scenario? How would somebody licensed and not informing them of it, make things more dangerous for the officer?
I can understand that by informing them of a license and gun would tend to be a reassuring thing, but can't agree with the notion of not informing as being so much more dangerous, to the point of being illegal and possibly worse.
I would approach all stops with the mindset that things could go south.
If they were up front and told me of the gun and permit? Thanks for your intent, but my mindset would remain the same.
I will disregard the abuse cases of doing either because I think they are the exception.

gman51 · Mar 23, 2017

When I renewed my CCL in Texas they used my recently renewed drivers license picture for the picture on my CCL. The two are tied together in TX.
I read someplace that if you are carrying when you get stopped by a LEO then you are to show your CCL to the officer. IMO why ask for a possible problem by not showing both licenses? IMO that shows the officer I am not trying to hide anything from him.

ladder13 · Mar 23, 2017

I think a redefining of "free state" may be in order.

ladder13 · Mar 23, 2017

NYlakesider said:
I saw that, though they will have to wait until about a month before the time limit is over before many people will send in that re-cert paperwork. Even our local sheriff said to do that, just send it in by "reply requested mail"

From what I hear many people are waiting until the last day before sending in their paperwork. Better make sure to send it registered.
Some, a few on NY specific boards, "claim" they're not sending anything in but I don't see a good result from that approach.

Sounds like internet bravado.

RSanch111 · Mar 23, 2017

What I don't understand is, aren't these officers approaching ALL stops considering a worse case scenario? How would somebody licensed and not informing them of it, make things more dangerous for the officer?

You're exactly right.

A good cop doesn't care if you tell him you're carrying a gun or not. Why? Because he's going to assume you may be armed whether you tell him or not.

What some people don't understand, or don't want to believe, is that the "shall inform" aspect of some states' CPL statutes was not included for the COPS' protection, but rather for the CPL person's protection. It's mean so that the guy who forgets that his gun is in his waistband 2" away from where he's reaching for his driver license doesn't get his brains blown out onto the dashboard while he's reaching for his license.

The cops still don't have to let the bad guy get the first round off. That may change the way things are going, but up to now, if it's reasonable to think a person is about to shoot him, the officer can shoot first. Just speaking for myself, I'd consider a guy reaching toward a gun as a prelude to a gunfight. So, inform or not, no skin off my nose but the life you save may be your own, as they say.

dougb1946 · Mar 23, 2017

I expect any and every cop to assume that I am armed. I see no reason that they should assume a CCW is a sign of good intentions. Husbands kill wives and children, why would they not kill a cop?

Carrying a gun at home where you can only hurt yourself and your own don't require any training in most states. When you go out in public, it does. The 2A left that decision to the states. It effected only the Federal govt when enacted.

Never argue with a cop at the side of the road, unless you have a camera running, and even then, be polite. You are going to lose, and that is why we have courts, where you might win.

seattlescape · Apr 4, 2017

I learned the hard way that even in a state with no duty to inform, it's wise to just inform politely. I was told off by an officer in Everett, WA not very long ago. He takes my license, registration, proof of insurance, and comes back saying he sees I have a CPL, and asks if I'm currently armed. I of course admit that I am, and he goes off a bit and tells me how legally I'm supposed to inform him. For those that don't know WA state law, the wording states that you must inform an officer upon demand, not that you must inform them whenever you make contact. However, I didn't care to argue this point as this would've only angered him more. He said I should know better. I told him I would go home and review the law, which I did: RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.

I have the whole incident on a dashcam video. He pulled me over because according to his visual speed estimation, I was going too fast. I am not upset over the underlying reason for the stop, just didn't appreciate being preached to regarding what he mistakenly believed was the law. I ended up getting only a verbal warning despite it all. As he accused me of reckless driving and not following the law regarding duty to inform, I'm not sure if that's because he actually wanted to cut me a break or just didn't have anything to back up his claims. Either way I'm sure he could've turned my already-bad day into a worse one if he was willing to put in the effort.

Whitwabit · Apr 4, 2017

In Illinois when the police run your tag who ever it is registered to license shows .. and it does show if that person has a CCL .. I told my wife to make sure her hands are where they can be seen if ever stopped because they would think there is a weapon in the Jeep .. she doesn't have a CCL ..

The Sheriff who gave my CCL class said all of his people the first thing asked in a stop is if there are any weapons in the vehicle whether it shows on the plate or not .. and that should be the first thing said by the officer ..

I haven't been stopped in over 40 years so can not verify that !! I did have interaction with an officer when I was a witness to a car crash .. and told the officer I was carrying .. He said thanks for notifying and that was it .. later while waiting for a tow truck we started talking and he asked what I was carrying and some small talk about pistols .. said it was well concealed because he didn't pick up on it .. said he always looks at anyone approaching him .. I was carrying my Beretta PX-4 Sub Compact 9mm OWB @ 4:30 with a shirt/jacket as an outer cover garment ..

cmort666 · Apr 4, 2017

seattlescape said:
I learned the hard way that even in a state with no duty to inform, it's wise to just inform politely.

In Ohio, you ONLY have to inform if you have an Ohio CHL or equivalent AND are ARMED. Needless to say, Ohio cops have repeatedly demanded that UNARMED CHL holders notify.

I'm sure that this is due in some part to people notifying when NOT required to do.

Inevitably, the "courtesy" becomes a "duty" in some cops' minds.

seattlescape said:
I was told off by an officer in Everett, WA not very long ago.

I had a similarly belligerent cop claim that open carry was a crime in Ohio. Strangely, neither he nor his partner could explain how when open carry was REQUIRED in a vehicle, it WASN'T "inducing panic". I wrote his chief reminding him of the legal perils inherent in false arrests.

Did you inform his superiors so that he didn't similarly abuse others?

seattlescape · Apr 5, 2017

cmort666 said:
Did you inform his superiors so that he didn't similarly abuse others?

I didn't end up taking any action afterward. Partly because I didn't know the officer's name as he never volunteered it, and I didn't have any paperwork to reference. I could've still sent an email to someone, so they could just make all their officers aware. But I really didn't want to cause problems for myself when I suppose it can be considered that I got lucky, as the officer was threatening to take me to jail and impound my car if there ever was a next time. And after that kind of speech, I can't say I'm eager to stir the pot, even if I may be in the right on the permit issue.

Capt. F. · Apr 5, 2017

Maine does not tie your CCW to your drivers license.

Triggernosis · Apr 5, 2017

deadin said:
What if you don't happen to be carrying at the time?
Do you have to inform them you aren't?

No. I was stopped last year on my motorcycle (they were on the lookout for stolen bikes in my area).
When the officer came back after running my plate an license she said that she saw that I had a concealed carry permit. I said yes ma'am I do, but I'm not carrying right now. She said OK, please drive safely.

LenS · Apr 12, 2017

Capt. F. said:
Maine does not tie your CCW to your drivers license.

Interesting because the new ME quasi-Constitutional carry law states that if you are carrying and do NOT have a ME license, you MUST declare. If you are carrying and do have a ME license, you do NOT have to declare!

MA, NH and VT do not require you to declare.

In MA if the cruiser MDT is running CJISweb software, running the tags will show LTC/FID if registered owner has one and running the DL will show LTC/FID as well. Some officers in Eastern MA will likely treat it as a "felony stop" if you declare, so it is risky business.

Old cop · Apr 12, 2017

Post #16 asked why DMV would alert an officer that the driver had a ccw permit. Any working cop wants to know as much as possible about the driver he/she is approaching. It's for officer safety and it's something I'd want to know in advance, if I was still a working cop. My state does the same and I have no problem with it.

Ozark Marine · Apr 12, 2017

Man I am so fricken glad I live in the free state of Missouri.
No permit for open or concealed carry and no law stating I Must Inform LEO's I'm armed.
No blood running in the streets here.

But Chicago, New Jersy and all those anti 2A states and cities are war zones.

buckyjames1 · Apr 12, 2017

Virginia Section 18.2-308-H:

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.

*during which he is carrying a concealed handgun*
*Upon demand by a law enforcement officer*

Pretty straight forward, any "compromise" is your choice. LEO often rant or make comments that we should always inform them, why...so they can further escalate? So we can give up rights to them so they can then further proceed to unwarranted searches and unnecessary delay? I follow the law and it clearly states what I must do. No more, no less.

You build the case against you with every word you say, so don't say anything.

If I ran a red light, or was speeding, give me the ticket, I will quickly be on my way and then cops can deal with the sad satisfaction that they are one ticket closer to their monthly quota.

triaxle · Apr 12, 2017

I am in PA if I get pulled over I keep hands on the wheel and seat belt on . If they dont ask I dont tell .

Drivers license/CCW connected?

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