Primary Arms Red dot

On Duty In Patrol/ Yes

cyphertext said:

No, not LE. Was just curious if you used one on duty. I have several LE friends who carry patrol rifles in their squad, and a couple of SWAT officer friends... All of them have the same opinion... "I need it to work when I need it", so they have more trust in brands like Aimpoint.

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With those circumstances I'd go Aimpoint too. This said the department would (should) furnish the Aimpoint. For most general uses on rifles for range play or even hunting with my coins out of pocket I'd go with the Primary Arms. The quality exceeds the price point.
Thanks for the comment. Good one.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo

As long as there are reports like this on this cheap, import, low priced FIELDSPORT red dot, that can hold up to this abuse, it's all I need.
All of you that pay big $$$ for your fancy smancy red dots, more power to you!
As long as you don't run me into the ground on my cheap Piece Of Feces red dot, I will return the favor.

Budget $20 Red Dot Keeps on Going !!! - YouTube
Budget $20 Red Dot WONT DIE ! - YouTube
Field Sport $20 Red Dot VS Bushnell TRS-25 Ultimate! - YouTube

Yes, the $20 optics are fine for fun at the range. However, in the video you posted, we can see that it's not waterproof like the MFR said. Water in electronics will eventually ruin them.

Also, the biggest difference is battery life. The Trijicon, Aimpoint and PA all have a 50K battery life. If the gun will be used for self-defense, you don't want to have to turn the optic on, it needs to be on already. With a 50K battery life, it can just be left on all the time. You can't do that with the $20 red dot.

Rastoff said:

Yes, the $20 optics are fine for fun at the range. However, in the video you posted, we can see that it's not waterproof like the MFR said. Water in electronics will eventually ruin them.

Also, the biggest difference is battery life. The Trijicon, Aimpoint and PA all have a 50K battery life. If the gun will be used for self-defense, you don't want to have to turn the optic on, it needs to be on already. With a 50K battery life, it can just be left on all the time. You can't do that with the $20 red dot.

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I figured that point would come up. My AR's are NOT for self-defense. I have a Mossberg Maverick 88 12 ga. on one side of my bed, and a Taurus .357 on the other side, for self-defense.
My AR's are for fun. Oh, and they are safe queens at that. I'm sure that will ruffle a few feathers.
My days of playing ARMY ended in 1992. My days of shooting at the enemy with my M16A2 ended in March of 91. Now I shoot at paper targets for fun.

Disabled1 said:

As long as there are reports like this on this cheap, import, low priced FIELDSPORT red dot, that can hold up to this abuse, it's all I need.
All of you that pay big $$$ for your fancy smancy red dots, more power to you!
As long as you don't run me into the ground on my cheap Piece Of Feces red dot, I will return the favor.

Budget $20 Red Dot Keeps on Going !!! - YouTube
Budget $20 Red Dot WONT DIE ! - YouTube
Field Sport $20 Red Dot VS Bushnell TRS-25 Ultimate! - YouTube

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Did you see reviews like this?

ChattanoogaPhil said:

Did you see reviews like this?

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That is the "RED & GREEN" dot, not the "RED" dot only.

Disabled1 said:

My AR's are for fun. Oh, and they are safe queens at that.

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Well, if you're never going to shoot them, even $20 on optics is too much.

Next question. Where can I find a good deal on a PA red dot?

C J said:

Next question. Where can I find a good deal on a PA red dot?

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This is the only one I'd recommend: Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot with Push Buttons and up to 50K-Hour Battery Life MD-ADS

I don't think you'll find a lower price.

Why is that the only one you would recommend Rastoff? I've seen people talk about the older version for years now on this board. Now all of a sudden it's not good enough? Why? Battery life isn't everything.

If you compare the two, the tie breaker is battery life. I've bought my share of cheaper red dots. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to get to the range only to find the battery has died. So, yeah, battery life isn't everything, but it is way at the top of the list.

If each optic provides the same clarity, durability and ease of use, but one has a longer battery life, get the one with the longer battery life. In fact, if PA didn't offer one with a 50K hour battery life, I wouldn't recommend one at all.

if PA didn't offer one with a 50K hour battery life, I wouldn't recommend one at all.

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Many others do list the lower priced PA as a viable option. I couldn't count the number of posts I've seen suggesting that a PA is a better bargain than a Vortex or any number of other red dots short of the Aimpoint type quality sights. To each his own I guess. Personally I can carry a lot of extra batteries and install them when needed for the price difference of $80 or so.

I've probably got more Chinese made red dots than most others here. They are great for recreational use. Expectations beyond recreation, no thanks.

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I read the article you linked to because I am interested in buying a PA sight. I have a couple of problems with the article. Aside from the obvious issues with badly installed sights (no lock-tite) and not checking his equipment before a competition (who doesn't check their stuff when they want to win?) I did see a couple of real issues namely the complete failure of one sight and the failure of another to turn on when jostled as it is designed to do. My other problems are that the sample size is very small and the second is that he seems to want to compare these sights to equipment costing far more. How could anyone expect the same level of quality when one sight costs 5 times as much as the other or more? I also noticed some anti-Chinese bias in the article. Obviously you can buy a lot of junk from China. I've seen lots of American junk too (think Ford Maverick). It's not set in stone that Chinese stuff will be worse. I have some quality firearms that were made in China and one of them is an SKS which he singled out for abuse for what reason I don't know. I've put many thousands of rounds through my SKS with less than 2 dozen failures which were all either ammo related or caused by modifications I made to the rifle (once I removed the modified parts the rifle went back to working perfectly). That's a record hard to achieve by any company. I have some firearms with fantastic reputations that have not done as well (a Sig P220 for example - although it has been great 99% of the time it did have a spring wear out around 15,000 rounds and it had issues - my SKS has more rounds through it and has not had similar issues).

I'm not about to say the SKS is the be all and end all of firearms but most of them are very dependable. Accuracy isn't the best but they aren't really bad either. I upgraded to an AR for obvious reasons but I have to say that I modified my SKS to take detachable mags the first day I bought it i 1992 and they have never once caused a problem. But they are slow to change out.

My point (I knew there was one in this rambling mess somewhere) is that "inexpensive" doesn't always mean bad and neither does "Chinese". I just wish the article dealt more with actual issues than generalizations.

While I think it would be foolish to depend solely on a PA sight for SD I am not so down on using a PA with iron sights for backups. Those rarely fail.

I think of a Mercedes vs. a VW. The Mercedes has a much better reputation for durability but the VW was actually almost legendary for lasting many thousands of miles and at a small fraction of the cost of a Benz. Mainly I'm just not impressed with the idea that you must spend more money to get quality (that isn't always true) or the idea that Chinese equals bad quality. My SKS isn't my only Chinese firearm that works very well.

I'd love to see a study with significant numbers of samples from both the PA sights and the major brands that cost far more. I know from what I've read that the PA's won't be equal to an aimpoint or whatever but exactly how bad they are would be good to know. Some of us just plain can't afford a $500 sight for every rifle or shotgun. I have been lucky enough to own a few high dollar scopes but I have health issues that drain my finances.

I do appreciate the effort people here put into helping people out with good advice. I have learned enough to know trusting your life to a PA is a bad idea. But the question I have is the PA a bad idea for the price that it brings. I have quality sights I can depend on for most of my HD type weapons. I just can't afford a high dollar sight right now and I have a gun that has no sight. I'm wondering do I sell the gun or buy an inferior sight to make do until the time comes I can buy a better sight as long as I'm not counting on that sight for SD purposes.

C J said:

I have learned enough to know trusting your life to a PA is a bad idea. But the question I have is the PA a bad idea for the price that it brings.

I'm wondering do I sell the gun or buy an inferior sight to make do until the time comes I can buy a better sight as long as I'm not counting on that sight for SD purposes.

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For range use or other non-critical uses, I think the PAs are great. I particularly like the sub $100 PA micro. I've had two for several years. For the price... I don't care for the $200 red dots of any label. Reason is simply because I don't consider any of them duty worthy nor of any greater value for my recreational range uses.

That said, I did not purchase the PAs with the intent of replacing them. They were purchased for a purpose that they well serve. Some have said that they decided on the $200 Vortex with trading up in mind. Reason being, that the Vortex lifetime warranty helps retain resale value and makes them easier to sell.

I don't so much intend to replace them as much as just moving it to another rifle at some point. The shotgun I just bought has not sight of any kind on it. I'd like to get a SD type sight for it soon but I just bought the shotgun and a new computer so I'll have to wait a bit maybe. I need something. But for true CQB for which the shotgun is intended point shooting should suffice if the sight should fail at least for now. I can do that fairly well. I don't know that everyone can - trust me there's plenty I can't do so I'm not talking myself up here. That's just one of the gifts God has given me. I'd trade it for some others I can think of.

What you're saying is why I questioned the value of going with the more expensive version of the PA sight. Battery life isn't all that important for shooting practice which is what I need to do with the gun for now if I expect to use it for SD later.

I don't have any personal experience with the PA micros on shotguns. If you have any concerns about the optic or hardware holding up to the recoil I'd call the guys at Primary Arms and talk to them. My experience is that they're first class no BS folks to deal with.

C J said:

I have learned enough to know trusting your life to a PA is a bad idea.

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I don't know that it's a bad idea, it's just that some believe it's a bad idea.....big difference.

Has anyone had a PA fail them in a time of life or death? Probably not. Do people believe they may fail you in a life or death situation? Absolutely.

Kadonny said:

I don't know that it's a bad idea, it's just that some believe it's a bad idea.....big difference.

Has anyone had a PA fail them in a time of life or death? Probably not. Do people believe they may fail you in a life or death situation? Absolutely.

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Forum members have seen PA optics have issues from being DOA to dying under normal range use, and even dying when put to extremes... PA always stands behind their product and replaces them when this happens. Just depends on what your tolerance for risk is.

cyphertext said:

Forum members have seen PA optics have issues from being DOA to dying under normal range use, and even dying when put to extremes... PA always stands behind their product and replaces them when this happens. Just depends on what your tolerance for risk is.

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Will PA replace it if you accidently drop it, and it won't zero again?

cyphertext, watch your PM's.

Disabled1 said:

Will PA replace it if you accidently drop it, and it won't zero again?

cyphertext, watch your PM's.

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As far as I know, they will...