while I think they do have a place, it seems that place is shrinking rapidly, I think price point alone is helping the 9, $200 shields vs $350-400 j frames, the 9s ammo is also cheaper then 38spl, all things people look at when buying new guns, atleast I do, ammo capcity, price, how hard it is to find food for, track record, just my thought on the debate.