First N Frame

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I have an assortment of K frame Smiths from early 1900's thru mid 1970's, but never had an N frame till two weeks ago. I was at a Gun show and saw a M1917 S&W for sale. This one had one problem. Someone in the past filed the front sight to look like a ramp, which ruined some collector value. On the plus side, it locked up tight and had the original blueing. He also had 4 moon clips and 24 rounds of ammo. It was made in 1918 and has all markings very visible. I bought it. Found all matching serial numbers except for the grips, a .005 barrel/cyl gap, and the barrel slugged at .4505. Took it to the range and at 10yds. hand held 4 out of 6 shots were touching and the other two close, and dead center. I paid $500.00 for it. Saw two others at the show for $700.00 in 60% the condition of this one. Do you think the price was fair because of the front sight? Thanks for any input.
 

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I have an assortment of K frame Smiths from early 1900's thru mid 1970's, but never had an N frame till two weeks ago. I was at a Gun show and saw a M1917 S&W for sale. This one had one problem. Someone in the past filed the front sight to look like a ramp, which ruined some collector value. On the plus side, it locked up tight and had the original blueing. He also had 4 moon clips and 24 rounds of ammo. It was made in 1918 and has all markings very visible. I bought it. Found all matching serial numbers except for the grips, a .005 barrel/cyl gap, and the barrel slugged at .4505. Took it to the range and at 10yds. hand held 4 out of 6 shots were touching and the other two close, and dead center. I paid $500.00 for it. Saw two others at the show for $700.00 in 60% the condition of this one. Do you think the price was fair because of the front sight? Thanks for any input.
I would have paid $500 or traded my first born for it. Most any N frame is worth $500.
 
Okay---let's talk about the front sight a little---maybe a lot.

First off, it is what it is. What it is is in the eye of the beholder. You seem to see it as, let's say unfortunate. On the other hand, you've learned that it works.

Now the other guy, the one who messed with it, thought it was unfortunate the way it was before---and he would take exception to me saying he messed with it. As far as he's concerned, he fixed it.

I collect target guns---examples of those used by real competitors in the real matches of yesteryear. Part of me prefers those examples to be really spiffy----unfooledaroundwith. That said, another part of me recognizes my preferences aren't necessarily the same as other folks'.

A case on point: I have what appears to be an essentially brand new 1st Model Single Shot pistol----all except for the front sight. It has been lovingly and very precisely wrapped with copper sheet stock---.012" thick. It's applied to both sides, and on top. It's secured in place by a flush pin (rivet maybe), and the perimeter follows exactly the perimeter of the original blade. It's an absolute work of art on the one hand---and a complete defacement on the other hand. The good news is I could replace it with another blade---an unfooledaroundwith blade----in a matter of minutes. I've had that gun for the better part of 20 years---and it's exactly the same as when I got it. I decided it had character. And besides that, it's one of the very first high visibility front sights---like those we pay extra for now.

I have other guns with different defacements---weird grips--checkered triggers-----"special" hammers, and the like. One other single shot wouldn't work at all when I put it back together after its "welcome bath". I had to sit and stare at that one for awhile. Then I noticed a second little notch just a bit above the original (where the bottom of the mainspring fits). Now I know where the mainspring goes---and that's where I put it---the first time around. When I did it like someone else wanted it done a long time ago, it worked fine. Actually, it worked a hell of a lot better than any of my other single shots---an action/trigger pull to die for!! As near as I can tell, that gun had an "action job" somewhere along the way---a real simple one involving a different spring in a different place.

Bottom Line: There are different strokes for different folks.

Next Bottom Line: Don't sweat the small stuff!

Last Bottom Line: Those guns with "character" are one of a kind----special.

Ralph Tremaine
 
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The M1917 is very nice, If you didn't mention the sight alteration I probably wouldn't have noticed it. Any gun that has 4 of 6 shots touching at 10 yards off hand is a keeper.
 
If that front sight got you the gun for that price, you're lucky!

Just use some orange fingernail polish on the sight to make it stand out better and add a Tyler grip adaptor, if needed. Magna grips or Pachmayr rubbers will lessen recoil effects a lot.

Add more ammo and call life good.

Get a good lined holster to avoid most finish wear and put the gun in service.

I've seen some really tight 25 yd. groups fired with S&W M-1917 .45's. Draw targets with the head of a Burmese python on them and practice shooting them. You may have that need in FL, where they've bred so heavily. Or, an Eastern Diamondback may require your marksmanship skills.

Don't use handloads much hotter than normal 45 ACP specs. Avoid Plus P ammo. That gun is 99-100 years old, The cylinders were heat treated, by US Govt. order, but the cylinder walls are fairly thin and the metallurgy of that day wasn't on par with modern guns.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good thoughts. I going to use some mild handloads in the 1917. Don't want to damage it. I am getting some rubber grips for it. I have had 2 surgeries on my right hand and can't grip like I used to.
It will be interesting to see how well it shoots lead bullets with the shallow rifling. I have some 200 and 230 gr. cast at .452 in. I'm betting it will work.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good thoughts. I going to use some mild handloads in the 1917. Don't want to damage it. I am getting some rubber grips for it. I have had 2 surgeries on my right hand and can't grip like I used to.
It will be interesting to see how well it shoots lead bullets with the shallow rifling. I have some 200 and 230 gr. cast at .452 in. I'm betting it will work.

Based on my experience with factory .45 Auto Rim ammo in a M-1950 Target .45, I wouldn't make that bet, unless the bullets are pretty hard. Accuracy was awful.

I didn't want to mess with half moon clips and ACP ammo, so sold that gun.
 
Good buy!

There's always tig welding to build up the front sight to original 1/2 moon size, reshape, and touch up with OxPho blue paste or Nu-Blue. Use heat paste on the barrel and front sight ramp to protect the original bluing.
 
The sights on my 1917 Army Postwar Transitional were messed with a wee bit more than yours with a fully filed front sight (including cross ribs) and the installation of a drift adjustable rear sight. Like yours, mine is a great shooter and I can't think of any amount of $$$$ that would get it out of my hands. Ya did good!

Stu
zdjgrux
 
Wow what a first N frame ,great gun great price ,although I understand why true collectors would knock monetary value off for non factory customization of any firearm as more of a shooter/ accumulator I love it and think you got a great deal .As you test loads report you findings now and again .
 
I have an assortment of K frame Smiths from early 1900's thru mid 1970's, but never had an N frame till two weeks ago. I was at a Gun show and saw a M1917 S&W for sale. This one had one problem. Someone in the past filed the front sight to look like a ramp, which ruined some collector value. On the plus side, it locked up tight and had the original blueing. He also had 4 moon clips and 24 rounds of ammo. It was made in 1918 and has all markings very visible. I bought it. Found all matching serial numbers except for the grips, a .005 barrel/cyl gap, and the barrel slugged at .4505. Took it to the range and at 10yds. hand held 4 out of 6 shots were touching and the other two close, and dead center. I paid $500.00 for it. Saw two others at the show for $700.00 in 60% the condition of this one. Do you think the price was fair because of the front sight? Thanks for any input.
Congratulations on your 1st N! My 1st was a 6" 28 no dash from 1960. Next was a 625JM. Next was a 25-15 in 45Colt. Looking for a .44 now. N's happen! Bob
 
I also bought a 1917 revolver in very good shape but for the ramped front sight. Unfortunately the sight profile on mine was too low and the gun shot very high with ball ammo. My neighborhood gunsmith (Terry Tussey) fixed the front sight by expertly adding a penny, & blackening it. It now shoots perfectly.
Also, I have many S&W 1917s and they are all much more accurate with ball ammo than with either factory lead auto-rim ammo or lead ACP loads. Don't really know why.
 
Okay---let's talk about the front sight a little---maybe a lot.

First off, it is what it is. What it is is in the eye of the beholder. You seem to see it as, let's say unfortunate. On the other hand, you've learned that it works.

Now the other guy, the one who messed with it, thought it was unfortunate the way it was before---and he would take exception to me saying he messed with it. As far as he's concerned, he fixed it.

I collect target guns---examples of those used by real competitors in the real matches of yesteryear. Part of me prefers those examples to be really spiffy----unfooledaroundwith. That said, another part of me recognizes my preferences aren't necessarily the same as other folks'.

A case on point: I have what appears to be an essentially brand new 1st Model Single Shot pistol----all except for the front sight. It has been lovingly and very precisely wrapped with copper sheet stock---.012" thick. It's applied to both sides, and on top. It's secured in place by a flush pin (rivet maybe), and the perimeter follows exactly the perimeter of the original blade. It's an absolute work of art on the one hand---and a complete defacement on the other hand. The good news is I could replace it with another blade---an unfooledaroundwith blade----in a matter of minutes. I've had that gun for the better part of 20 years---and it's exactly the same as when I got it. I decided it had character. And besides that, it's one of the very first high visibility front sights---like those we pay extra for now.

I have other guns with different defacements---weird grips--checkered triggers-----"special" hammers, and the like. One other single shot wouldn't work at all when I put it back together after its "welcome bath". I had to sit and stare at that one for awhile. Then I noticed a second little notch just a bit above the original (where the bottom of the mainspring fits). Now I know where the mainspring goes---and that's where I put it---the first time around. When I did it like someone else wanted it done a long time ago, it worked fine. Actually, it worked a hell of a lot better than any of my other single shots---an action/trigger pull to die for!! As near as I can tell, that gun had an "action job" somewhere along the way---a real simple one involving a different spring in a different place.

Bottom Line: There are different strokes for different folks.

Next Bottom Line: Don't sweat the small stuff!

Last Bottom Line: Those guns with "character" are one of a kind----special.

Ralph Tremaine

Ralph, How'd you get so smart. I needed to hear that:)
 
Congrats on your first N frame, now let the buying begin. This was habit forming for me.
 
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