View Single Post
 
Old 03-10-2018, 06:12 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,475
Likes: 14,587
Liked 9,313 Times in 3,723 Posts
Default

One need not reconsider the fact that they carry a gun unless it is a function of not being serious about it, but the way you carry it might need to be reconsidered.

"Slammed to the ground": one needs to understand that barring some really odd circumstance, the overwhelming majority of people taken to the ground with vigor are there because they did not comply with prior direction. BT, DT. Compliance is not discretionary under the Constitutional case law or the statutes of most if not all states. Delay is not acceptable under any police training - because anything other than immediate compliance is a very big danger signal. If the delay is perceptible, it is too long. Blank stares, questions, and other stuff are not consistent with the safety of the officers or the uninvolved folks present, and ARE consistent with violent assaultive behavior. For those of us with crummy joints, it will mean moving as fast as possible in a manner consistent with the direction - I have bad knees and I'm still going to what I can to comply with all the speed I can muster.

Cops cannot take chances, legally or ethically; safety violations by cops should result in pretty serious discipline. Military ROE do not translate to the Constitutional standard, and overcoming that training is one of the hardest things most cops I know who come from the military have had to do. A friend of mine is a retired JAG with an LE legal background, and his commentary on the ignorance of most military trainers and command officers is scathing. I helped with a brief for an infantry officer wrong fully convicted in part due to that kind of silliness (the only defense type stuff I have done in years) - many officers from O-3 to at least O-6 in both JAG and the combat arms should have been court-martialed and given BCDs/DDs after release from confinement, and hopefully will be when the matter is over.

Can't raise one hand all the way? At least keep it as far from your body as possible, with the hand OPEN and the palm toward the cops. Crutch/case? Same - remember that the cops will hopefully (not always) have a decent description of the offender; most will not be 75 YOs with a cane.

If there is conversation with an officer (which will vary by the level of chaos, number of cops, and lots of other things) regarding the circumstances, comply with the directions FIRST, and then explain after you are controlled as the officer wants that you are lawfully armed. Describe the location of the firearm and any features of the holster WITHOUT MOVING, especially not toward it, and likewise, the location of your ID.

Understand this: offenders come in all sizes, ages, shapes, pigments, etc. As I say to recruits in our local reserve academies - you should generally disregard pigment, plumbing, and preference other than as needed as descriptors on a report, because (socially undesirable people) come in all varieties. I have met and dealt with violent and dangerous criminals in the street and in court of all ages, body types, sex, etc. I mean from 11 to mid-70s, male and female. Understand this, too: just because YOU know that you are the most wonderful person on the planet does not mean that anyone else knows it, and cops cannot assume it. "Nice" cops are the ones most likely to be assaulted and killed, a fact shown by research 25+ years ago and never contradicted (and I had a supervisor at the time who matched that, and was in fact nearly killed as a result).

Force is ugly; effective force is really ugly; that does not make it wrong - just ugly. American LE uses force very rarely, and lethal force even more rarely, and not nearly enough - the current fabricated discourse is completely unrealistic. As I said in another string, there is a really good book on Terry you can find by googling "Terry stop" with "Doug Mitchell". As for use of force generally by LE, the leading text is clearly Urey W. Patrick and John C. Hall, “In Defense of Self and Others -- issues, facts & fallacies: The realities of law enforcement's use of deadly force” (3rd edition, 2017) anyone interested needs to buy and read it.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03-10-2018 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post: