Wonderful find!
1917 PRODUCTION SUMMARY*:
*The data below compiled from many posts and gleaned from various books, observations of many other members, and personal observation as well. The information below no longer includes any direct quotes, just summarized info in my own words.
Military 1917s are in the #1 thru # 169959 (the estimated last military #) range but with only 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered by or in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers were not used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W (7300 frames) and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII.
Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov’t inspector, left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. There’s also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000 to April 1918.
Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, S34, etc., from April 1918 to war’s end. These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property” on the underside of the barrel.
Note: barrels are known missing the UNITED STATES PROPERTY stamp on the bottom, although a matching serial number is stamped on the barrel flat and the gun is otherwise correct and obviously original. Otherwise these are factory replacement barrels and will usually have a date of rework on the grip frame, left side.
The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.
Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.
Most 1917 military issue have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later built frames with early #s have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated. However, cumulative wisdom is that the flat-top strap with Sq notch rear sight revision came to the N-frame in the mid 1920's.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos nor even commercial models (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).
ARSENAL REBUILD: If there’s an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it’s an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well. Examples:
Tryig to identify 1917 Revolver &
Please help identify my 1917 Hand Ejector .45
Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. The cyl hold open detent went away on all frames after WW II with the usual few exceptions that had frames/yokes made pre war. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.
Serial/Government numbering of 1917s, Smith vs. Colt:
Many do not know that S&W 1917s are #d differently from Colt 1917s.
The S&W serial # is on the butt, as opposed to Colt, and served a dual purpose; it was also S&W's government #. The serial number on the COLT US Army Model of 1917 is stamped on the frame, opposite the crane, and a different number on the butt of their 1917 is the government #.
S&W Assembly (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame opposite the yoke, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and post war period to ~1958.
Colt used a 1 in 16" left-hand twist. S&W preferred a 1 in 14.569" right-hand twist, Smith & Wesson Handguns by Roy McHenry and Walter Roper, page 97. Also, David Chicoine in his book on gunsmithing the guns of the old west states that S&W top breaks initially had 5 lands but later, with the .45 Schofield, went to 6 lands.
My 25-2 and my 22-4 both have the 6 groove twist.
My Triple Lock 455 British Contract barrel from 1915 has 5 groove rifling.
My earliest 44 Triple Lock from 1910 has 5 groove rifling, my most recent 1990 44 does too, as well as all .44s in between.
COMMERCIAL MODELS
S&W logo left side post 1920 [except after 12/1936; large logo on side plate], checkered non-medallion, convex top stocks during the 1920s. [Flat silver medallions thru the 1930s and war years.]”
In 1933 at about serial # 185,000 a hammer block was added to this model. It’s the 2nd pre war style (leaf spring in side plate - uses early style hand spring in trigger).
There's a statement in SCSW pg 163 that the new hammer block was added at serial #185,000 w/o an S because of course it’s prior to 1946.
Smooth triggers until serrated triggers order change March 18, 1929.
Com'l 1917 models have a serial # parallel to the butt like all other Com’l models (except those I frames stamped on the front grip strap). The butt # on all pre war guns will read right side up muzzle to the right.
1917 Coml shipping dates:
165932 shipped on August 21, 1921 to the Supplee-Biddle Hardware Co., Philadelphia, PA., logo but no "Made in USA" stamp.
s/n 167382 shipped October 1922
s/n 173685 shipped May 1922
s/n 173878 shipped Feb. 1921
s/n 173941 shipped Jan. 1921
s/n 174861 shipped Sept. 1921
s/n 179014 shipped August 1927
179698 shipped Sept 20, 1927
s/n 180692 shipped January 1936
1811xx shipped August 11, 1928
s/n 181772 shipped December 1930
s/n 181806 shipped July 1932
Transitional Post War Commercial Models
In Dec 1936, logo ordered moved to the sideplate on the right and made larger.
In SCSW reportedly some few of these 1930 rd top frames (991) were also reportedly assembled in the serial range S209792-S210782, many of which shipped in the 1946-48 period, no longer with mushroom knobs. They can have the straight extractor rod, but most with the 'barrel' shaped extractor knob, usually stamped MADE IN USA instead of the 4 line address stamp, and large S&W logo stamp on the side plate. The S s/n prefix indicates they have the Post war sliding bar safety.
#S 210529 has S serial #, barrel knob, but not the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp:
Model 1917 Commercial
No S prefix #210120 within normal range, shipped October 1946
Much earlier Coml in the transition range:
Iskra’s Sn 209957 (no "S" prefix).
SMITH & WESSON DA 45 MODEL 1917 COMMERCIAL See original box in post #37.
# 15537 S a Commercial Model is clearly one of the WW I produced frames in the 1 to ~175,000 WW I 1917 military serial number range. WW I 1917 revolver numbered frames were not all completed and only 163,476 completed revolvers (the estimated last military unit made being #169959), and 7300 numbered but incomplete frames were actually shipped to the Army or sold commercially until 1/5/1921.
These therefore do not have the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp (introduced in mid 1922) on the right side front of the frame. And the lack of the small left side logo is normal on military models and all S&Ws during and following WW I until resurrected ~1920.
The large S stamped following the serial #s in various locations indicates it’s below ~ serial #42,000 which were inspected under Colonel Gilbert H. Stewart's authorization whose initials would be on the upper left side rear of the frame.
It also indicates the gun was shipped prior to WW II. After WW II a larger S prefix to the serial # on the butt was stamped to indicate N frames that had the new post war sliding bar hammer block safety.
Letter here:
SMITH & WESSON DA 45 MODEL 1917 COMMERCIAL
*RE-USE OF 1917 SURPLUS FRAMES
Inspected, but unused serial numbered 1917 military frames preceding and following #169959, (the estimated last military unit made), were assembled thru #209791 by 1946. Some numbered frames went to the Navy and Marines.
Some 1917s with frames and parts left over from the government contract with very varied shipping dates were assembled into military 1917s to fill contracts for the Brazilian government in 1937 and 1946 and many frames into commercial model 1917s. Therefore the s/n is of little help to pin down the shipping dates, but features do help. Some frames used for 2nd Model 44 Hand Ejectors & 38/44s, and those will have serial #s in the regular N frame serial number series instead of the 1917 serial # range.
There are numerous examples that have the flaming bomb or eagle government inspector stamps in one or more various locations but not on the outside of the frame which were finished off; only in the yoke, and on 45 barrels and/or 45 cylinders. Also fouling cutouts may be found on these frames under the top strap.
Example: 45 ACP all matching serial number is #55639 (assembly # 18408 match in all 3 locations as well), it's a round top/U sight notch, has Eagle head proofs inspectors stamps on barrel & cylinder; S24 on cylinder, and an S34 on the barrel. Likely from the 1946 contract because of round top strap and U notch.
If it has the S&W trademark on the frame it is a commercial gun, at least after ~ 1920.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos.
A few coml models were produced c. 1946 - 1950 (991 is the usual quantity quoted), most in the 1917 serial range # S209972 to # S210782 (811 #s), but not all, and some without the S prefix.
Issued as commercial models post WW II, found with and w/o lanyard swivels, and are considered "Model 1917 Army Post War Transitional Models", until updated with the short action as the: ".45 HE Model of 1950, Military" in 1951 beginning at #S85000 in the other existing N frame serial # range common to all pre war and post war models except the 1917 Army, but most with added S prefix in 1946.
BRAZILIAN CONTRACT 1917s (1937/1946)
In 1937 S&W made some 25,000 1917s for Brazil, most in serial range 181983-207043 (with exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range), using the late or post WW I produced flat top frame with sq notch rear sight, and these are stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.” on right frame side with the S&W trademark on left side of frame. They also have a Brazilian Crest on the side plate dated 1937. These first contract Brazilian 1917s had commercial checkered grips with flat chrome plated medallions. Mushroom extractor knobs. Many Brazilians can be found with the import mark of the importer that brought them back to the USA. One common importer stamp is "IA CO SAC CA" (International Arms Company, Sacramento, California) but stamps of other big importers of surplus arms can be observed as well.
The 2nd Brazilian contract run in 1946 of about 11,800, most using surplus WW I produced frames in the 166,000 – 175,150 range with exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range like #s 67119, 79,100 & 80478. Therefore most with older style round top strap and small U notch rear sight. Some were the newer flat top frames generally in the 207,196 – 209,878 range, with a few round tops also reported in that range. These '46 contract guns had newly made 1917 smooth grips. These are also stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.”. Serial #s read with barrel to the left like all post war hand ejectors. But with mushroom extractor knobs.
Why 1946 Brazilians do not have sliding bar safeties and may have cyl hold open detents: “The first .45 H. E. Model of 1917 finished after World War I were made from frames and parts that had been completed and ready to be used for the military if the war had not ended. That is why you see a lot of post World War I "N" frames both .44 and .45 with the Springfield Armory inspection mark on the inside of the frame. Once these frames were used up the factory then began making new frames.
Brazilians have myriad anomalies. S&W clearly used re-purchased (from the government) and scoured, old parts inventory for frames and pieces to assemble them. One can honestly say that you will see every combination of 1917 frames and parts of multiple vintages assembled, that one can conjure up! There are some trends but the old adage that "the main rule is, there are no rules" truly applies in no other case as well as it does here.
Serial Number range for the 1917 Commercial? Serial # confusion and true up:
Serial Number range for the 1917 Commercial?