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Old 04-13-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
..../

/....The extra CAI Ser# on the gun is part of the Import Marking regs.
The Fed regs read that the Imported cannot use the manufacturers applied ser# if that number is duplicated on ANY other firearm that that importer brings in/sells.
With the thousands of firearms they import, and possiblilty of one of the Ser#'s being duplicated somewhere, sometime on something,,CAI and some others have gone right to slapping an Importers Applied Ser# on the pieces.
They've showed up on several different CAI imports much to the disgust of customers as they look at a perfectly good mfg'rs stamped number on the same gun.

It's a CYA by the importers I suspect,not knowing if the Murphys LAw of chance will come back to bite them or not.
The Importers applied ser# becomes the legal ser# of the firearm as far as transactions in this country are concerned.
The Fed reg about altering, removing, obliterating a manufacturers applied ser#,,blah, blah,,,now includes '..or Importers applied serial number..' to the language.

It's most likely easier for places like CAI to inventory as well, They run the items through Dottie the dot matrix marking monster machine and they all get the import markings AND a new ser#. Very convenient for a computerized program to inventory, sort, ship and keep records of.

Those Spanish Police and Armed Forces inventory numbers have always caused problems in the past.
It was CAI that logged a large number of Model B and Model B Super pistols imported in the 90's and used the Spainish Armed Forces Inventory # as the ser# instead of the real ser# on the pistols.
Maybe that was an early lesson in all this. .../


/....If you want to remove the magazine safety feature,
Remove the grips,,** make sure each grip screw is accounted for as to which placement and grip hole position it was removed from. They go back in the same positions as they came out**.
The mag safety is implanted on the right side of the frame along the backstrap w/an intrgrel pin that goes thru to the left side of the frame.
Simply push the pin out from the left side. The mag safey spring will come out with it (all one piece).
They usually come out easily as the grips are the only thing that captures it in place.

Once removed,,the magazine safety feature is removed. You are removing a factory designed and installed safety feature,,be aware and take note of that. Make sure that is what you want to do.

The magazine will be a drop free feature. If the mags still do not drop freely, check the grip screws once installed and make sure they are not too long and extending inside the mag well riding on the mag body.
I neglected to mention the ease of magazine safety removal, or that like the high power with the magazine safety installed, the magazine won't drop free.

The Star BM is notable in terms of how easy the magazine safety is to remove and re-install.

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The ATF's guidebook is actually sub regulatory guidance that was not open to public inspection and comment.

The intent of the law as to ensure that multiple firearms were not recorded with the same serial number. That's why throughout the document you see references to the manufacturer, type model, and serial number. With all of those recorded, you don't get firearms that cannot be distinguished from one another. Adding the importer's name and address just adds one more level of discrimination.

ATF over stepped itself and/or mis-stated the intent when it stated "the serial number cannot duplicate the serial number appearing on any other firearm the importer previously imported." CAI may well have imported a firearm with the serial number 1,508,855 in the past, but that previous firearm would not have been a Star Model BM 9mm pistol in 9mm Parabellum.

There is sometimes confusion with arms like the P.08 or P.38 where the German military used 4 digit serial numbers with an "a" suffix after the first 10,000 and the next letter in the alphabet used for each successive block.

That can cause some confusion when a P.08 manufactured by Mauser in 1942 has a low 4 digit serial number and a N suffix, making it one of the last Mauser P.08 Lugers produced. Mauser cycled through the alphabet three times just on it's P.08 production (not counting DWM, Erfert, etc).

But the differentiation occurs when you consider the manufacturer, the year of productio stamped on the pistol, and the serial number including the suffix letter. Put all that together and each P.08 Luger is uniquely identifiable.

Writing a requirement for, let alone even allowing, a second serial number just creates room for confusion and misses the larger intent of the statute.

For example, when I bought mine, the person filling out the paperwork was confused about which number to use, since there were three choices. I pointed out that the CAI number was probably the one it had been logged in under, but advised her to check for sure, as if it had been logged in under the original number and was then logged out with the CAI serial, the ATF would cite that as a violation. On the other hand, it the gun were logged in and out with the original serial number ATF would never know.

The problem is that if the future the gun was used in a crime and the CAI serial was used by the police officer requesting a trace, the gun would fly under the radar completely. The same would be true if the trace was done on the original serial and the gun had been logged in/out on the CAI number. The presence of a more prominent property mark on the gun is already a problem as an officer is far more likely to see that number on the slide and frame than the less prominent serial number on the other side of the frame just in front of the grip panel.

The underlying problem is that ATF attorneys get involved and simultaneously start thinking very narrowly while catastrophizing, and thus come up with a requirement that is not only useless but counter productive.

P.08 Lugers and P.38s are as complicated as it gets, but each of them is uniquely identifiable if you capture all the data that is intended to be used. A requirement to record the production year on the firearm, if present, along with the serial number and any prefix of suffix letters is sufficient. The only caveat that would be needed would be for parts guns where the serial number on the slide (and thus the date stamped on the slide) does not match the serial number on the frame (the part that counts as the receiver). In those cases, and only those cases, a separate importer applied serial number would be needed.

From the importer perspective then, CAI knows that it will never import two Star Model BM pistols with the same serial number on the frame, as Star is a company that did not use duplicate serial numbers on the same model or even the same family of firearms. The ATF knows that as well and would never be successful in an enforcement action for a practice that fully met the intent of the law, even if it could prove that CAI imported a Star BM 9mm pistol that had the exact same serial number as a CAI imported Mosin Nagant 91/33 7.62x54R rifle as the two are clearly identifiable as distinctly separate firearms.

But CAI has it's own attorneys who think narrowly and catastrophize.

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To be fair there are some oddities out there. For example, There are some other arms that can fall in that ambiguous category. For example I have a friend with a P35 with serial number 27. No, it's not the 27th Browning Hi Power ever made, but it is the 27th Browning Hi Powered delivered under a specific French police contract, and they asked for them to be serial numbered in that manner and Browning obliged. In that case, that pistol, if imported now, would need a unique serial number applied, as the actual 27th Browning Hi Power produced by Browning might also be imported and/or Browning may have done the same thing on another contract leaving the possibility of 3 or 4 Hi Powers with serial number 27. That means that any Hi Power with a low serial number that is not consistent with it's other features would need a unique serial number applied, and that just means CAI would have to set aside low serial number arms and make a case by case determination, or just serial number all low number firearms it imports.

Last edited by BB57; 04-13-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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