I somehow wound up with three of the things. I really liked the grips and feel of them. The triggers were fairly awful, and I put an Apex in one to see if it would help (it didn't). And I was still getting the hang of loading for the 9mm, which can be quirky. Ammo they didn't like, other pistols gobbled up. I wanted to like them, but they got used for trade stock and barter.