Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
I want to ask a couple questions concerning this:Keeping the discussion to just these two guns, I would pick the G19 (M&P 9 Compact 2.0) over the revolver. Here's why...
Both guns can be prevented from firing multiple shots, but only the revolver can be prevented from firing the first shot. If an assailant can grasp the cylinder, they can prevent it from turning. If they do that, the enclosed hammer doesn't help you at all. At least with the G19, as long a you can get your finger on the trigger, you get the first shot. As we see in video after video, once the first shot is fired in these situations, the bad guys usually run. You can't count on that, but it is the most likely scenario.
Along with that, I don't understand what you mean by: How is the snubby quicker to get into the fight? Both pistols must be drawn from wherever they are. Sounds like they'd be the same. Maybe you can explain how the snubby is quicker?
Also, you said:Why does the snubby offer better retention? Once out, they are both equally easy (or not) to retain. I don't understand why you think the snubby offers better retention.
I'm just looking for clarification here. I completely agree that 5 shots should be enough for a civilian to the 6 sigma level.
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The auto can be forced out of battery, preventing firing that first shot. Grabbing the cylinder seems like a viable option and I know is often taught in many martial arts and self-defense programs and has been for a long time, but it is just extremely difficult to retain a grip on a snubnose revolver. It just doesn't hold up very well in force-on-force. You usually have to overwhelm the wielder and get two hands on it. In terms of simply redirecting the gun off-line, that's easier to do to someone with a Glock 19 compared to a snub. These are all momentary and transitional considerations in a dynamic environment. When you start getting hands on and body contact, autos frequently run into reliability problems. Craig Douglas and many students who have attended his courses have posted numerous vids of his ECQC class on YouTube showing this problem surface with sim guns. They are pretty easy to find if interested.
It just doesn't take much contact(intentional or inadvertent) to stop an auto from cycling as Tom Givens demonstrates.
In terms of quickness into action, the short muzzle, the overall roundness and the cylinder of a snub providing a slight amount of clearance from the body in many instances makes clearing the holster or waistband a little quicker. Plus there's the pocket carry option. A lot of folks view firing from inside the pocket a novelty, but I see it as a viable tactic. Michael de Bethencourt recently posted(May 17th) a real world example of it being used to the ImWithROSCOE Facebook page. It's an assassination attempt and not a self-defense scenario, but it illustrates the viability of the technique. No draw being the fastest draw as it were. Pants pocket carry does come with several disadvantages, but having your hand on the weapon without alerting anyone to your intent does allow for an extremely quick draw. If you go on YouTube and search "Stephon Carter kills officer in Aiken SC, you'll find a demonstration of it's speed and effectiveness albeit for criminal purposes. I'd post the links, but they may not be considered suitable for the forum.
The snub offers better weapon retention because it's more difficult to get ahold of and retain a grip on. There's just not anything there to utilize leverage against. This is simply due to it's short muzzle and overall rounded contours. Plus being able to find or better customize grips to your individual hand helps out some as well.