I too like my Model 12s. But I just got to say..about 55-60 yrs for the model 12 reliable oh yes. Made approx 2 million. 870?? 70 yrs or so..Maybe 8 million or more. I lost track. Reliable? sure 'nuff but I have to say the 870 is an easy gun to work on..getting parts is easy. and once you learn how to shoot 'em, almost as fast as a M-12. They will also take more abuse than a M-12....and the part that is in the 870s favor they are so easy and cheap to make. They are even being copied by the Chinese and S&W made a pump(M1000/3000) at one time that was about a dead ringer of the 870. It was a good gun also. How many guns has Remington made off the same basic design?