Hello, I'm new to the forum. I have a S&W Model One, Third Issue I'm considering selling. It's 3 1/4" barrel with pearl grips. 84,445 serial number. I have attached images. I'd appreciate any and all feedback on price value & other relevant info. Thanks much!
Model 1, 3rd Issue Questions
- Thread starter dwilkes71
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opoefc
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Welcome to the Forum. Values ( selling prices) on these guns are not high, as many 1,000s were made and only those that are still in near new condition will bring prices in the lower 4 figures. Your gun shows abuse from poor cleaning after firing, etc., as black powder is very corrosive to gun finishes. The stocks are nice and were probably "dealer" added, a common upgrade of the period. (They are ivory, not pearl) If your gun was in a good online auction, I would expect it to bring a hammer price around $400, give or take $50, assuming it's in good mechanical condition and the assembly codes on the frame, cylinder and barrel all match. ( The side plate has been off at some time past and not correctly seated when replaced. That an easy correction, however. ) Ed.
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Welcome Aboard,
Those Pearl Grips? Sure look like Elephant Ivory to me? Stress cracks visible at the escutcheons don't happen with Pearl grips. That being said, Ivory grips were once cherished by collectors and still are but now with all the laws changing regarding the buying and selling of ivory in a lot of States etc that makes it very difficult to find a legal buyer. Not too many options really. You have to be able to prove the Ivory scales are over 100 years old. A factory letter might help but it also might come back with original grips being wood. Sorry, I don't write the laws. I like the gun and still appreciate old Ivory grips. To be certain you can take the grips off the gun. Pearl grips are cold and heavy like a rock and have rainbow colors to Them when held to the light. They are rarely flat on the back side. Ivory is much lighter and flat on the back side with discoloring yellow staining.
Those Pearl Grips? Sure look like Elephant Ivory to me? Stress cracks visible at the escutcheons don't happen with Pearl grips. That being said, Ivory grips were once cherished by collectors and still are but now with all the laws changing regarding the buying and selling of ivory in a lot of States etc that makes it very difficult to find a legal buyer. Not too many options really. You have to be able to prove the Ivory scales are over 100 years old. A factory letter might help but it also might come back with original grips being wood. Sorry, I don't write the laws. I like the gun and still appreciate old Ivory grips. To be certain you can take the grips off the gun. Pearl grips are cold and heavy like a rock and have rainbow colors to Them when held to the light. They are rarely flat on the back side. Ivory is much lighter and flat on the back side with discoloring yellow staining.
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Welcome. I doubt that those stocks would be over the weight limit of 200 grams, which would prohibit selling that revolver with ivory stocks. Here is what I rely on for determining that stocks are typically exempt from the law.
Excerpts from USFWS Ivory regulations.
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990 . . .
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 % of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 % of the item by volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams . . .
What Can I Do With My Ivory?
My guess for value would be maybe around $500. That might be high, but ivory stocks on Model 1 revolvers is quite rare. The gun with standard rosewood stocks would sell for $300 - $350 with most of the nickel intact and the stocks are worth $150 -$200, assuming the gun letters with ivory.
Excerpts from USFWS Ivory regulations.
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990 . . .
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 % of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 % of the item by volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams . . .
What Can I Do With My Ivory?
My guess for value would be maybe around $500. That might be high, but ivory stocks on Model 1 revolvers is quite rare. The gun with standard rosewood stocks would sell for $300 - $350 with most of the nickel intact and the stocks are worth $150 -$200, assuming the gun letters with ivory.
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Just for the sake of legality and protecting your property? Federal ivory laws may or may not be applicable depending on what state you reside.
Some States have much more strict Ivory laws.
California for example purposely targets firearm ivory by "Specifically" requiring that you have " documented " proof that the ivory in question is over 100 years old and is " less than" 5%" by volume which most grips are about 8-12%. So they purposely targeted Antiques to disqualify them for Sale or purchase with the ivory stocks on them.
Which of course is way beyond protecting wildlife and clearly targeting antique gun owners! No question!
The fine is up to $50,000 and up to 1 Year in jail. They are using Fish& Game Officers to enforce the law but can also use federal officers according to the new ivory law implemented last year. I have also heard from fellow antique collectors of officers showing up at gun shows and confiscating all ivory for sale! Ivory shops in the Emarcadero Area have been closed down! Needless to say you don't see any ivory gripped guns for sale anymore!
So know your State laws as well as Federal and if you sell this Smith you must have proof that the ivory scales are over 100 years old and can only be sold to someone who resides in a state who's laws allow it.
I'm not saying that I agree with any of this. I personally prefer to dodge liability that's why I read a lot and try to stay up on the constantly changing gun laws in this Anti-gun State.
Some States have much more strict Ivory laws.
California for example purposely targets firearm ivory by "Specifically" requiring that you have " documented " proof that the ivory in question is over 100 years old and is " less than" 5%" by volume which most grips are about 8-12%. So they purposely targeted Antiques to disqualify them for Sale or purchase with the ivory stocks on them.
Which of course is way beyond protecting wildlife and clearly targeting antique gun owners! No question!
The fine is up to $50,000 and up to 1 Year in jail. They are using Fish& Game Officers to enforce the law but can also use federal officers according to the new ivory law implemented last year. I have also heard from fellow antique collectors of officers showing up at gun shows and confiscating all ivory for sale! Ivory shops in the Emarcadero Area have been closed down! Needless to say you don't see any ivory gripped guns for sale anymore!
So know your State laws as well as Federal and if you sell this Smith you must have proof that the ivory scales are over 100 years old and can only be sold to someone who resides in a state who's laws allow it.
I'm not saying that I agree with any of this. I personally prefer to dodge liability that's why I read a lot and try to stay up on the constantly changing gun laws in this Anti-gun State.
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Nice looking gun. A few notes:
* others have commented on the question of pearl versus ivory. These look ivory to me, but I'd want to see better pictures (or have the gun in hand) to make a more positive assessment. And others have given a lengthy discussion about the legality of ivory, which is worth reading.
* it appears that the barrel hinge screw is either missing or has a broken screw head. I believe that this screw was a rather unique thread pitch, so don't go stuffing any old screw into there.
* Aside from the interesting grips, this appears to be a pretty garden-variety Model 1. I see corrosion and worn nickel on the usual spots. Finger-in-the-wind guess (assuming the worst case -- that the barrel hinge screw thread is broken off and the rest of the screw is still in there, and also that these are ivory grips) would be in the $300 range, give or take. That's a bit more conservative than the other estimates, and as Ed mentioned it would really depend on whether the gun letters with the ivory grips or not. Not sure it's worth risking $60 to find out (my guess is that it won't letter with those grips). If it did, though, then $400 to $450 would be more reasonable.
Mike
* others have commented on the question of pearl versus ivory. These look ivory to me, but I'd want to see better pictures (or have the gun in hand) to make a more positive assessment. And others have given a lengthy discussion about the legality of ivory, which is worth reading.
* it appears that the barrel hinge screw is either missing or has a broken screw head. I believe that this screw was a rather unique thread pitch, so don't go stuffing any old screw into there.
* Aside from the interesting grips, this appears to be a pretty garden-variety Model 1. I see corrosion and worn nickel on the usual spots. Finger-in-the-wind guess (assuming the worst case -- that the barrel hinge screw thread is broken off and the rest of the screw is still in there, and also that these are ivory grips) would be in the $300 range, give or take. That's a bit more conservative than the other estimates, and as Ed mentioned it would really depend on whether the gun letters with the ivory grips or not. Not sure it's worth risking $60 to find out (my guess is that it won't letter with those grips). If it did, though, then $400 to $450 would be more reasonable.
Mike
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