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Originally Posted by AndrewWeber
That's a lot of words! But you got one thing wrong, I nowhere said what you called the real question,
"With the pulled armor piercing bullet of the original Winchester AP ammo, at what muzzle velocity would the bullet fired at contact distance stay inside a human body?"
it even looked like a quote!
I said nothing about "stay inside a human body" I several times said "go through" a body or a 2x4
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True, I was paraphrasing. Here is your actual quote:
"What would be the minimum gr of factory powder necessary for this particular bullet to just go through a human body, not any further, if you hold the gun directly to the chest ? Whats the sufficient velocity ?"
That is what we call here in America, splitting hairs. The only way for a bullet to go through a body and "not any further" (do you expect the bullet to just drop to the floor?) is for it to not exit the body. Hunters sometimes find that when field dressing an animal that they've shot, that the bullet has complete traversed the animal's body and come to rest just under the skin on the far side. That is the kind of performance that would be required to satisfy your requirement.
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But ok, the scaremongers misled you.
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You are the only misleading person here.
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Now, your text, i did find something useful. You say
"Even the plain old 158 grain round nose lead bullet in .38 Special (typical muzzle velocity of 850 feet per second) has a reputation for over penetration. One would think a pointed, metal capped AP bullet would be even more likely to exit a body, but there is no way to know at what velocity it would not. 400fps? 600? It is purely guesswork."
which in a couple of ways contradicts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddixie884 
If the factory round has a jacketed 158gr bullet14gr of 2400 powder giving @ 1300fps. Reducing it by 1gr would probably only reduce by 50 or 75fps. 2gr less 100 or 150fps. At @ 10gr you would be less than 1,000fps. Going down to 8gr would be taking a chance on sticking a bullet in barrel.
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The bullet of my interest is correctly a "158gr bullet14gr of 2400 powder giving @ 1300fps" and you now say it could penetrate a body at 850fps
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Nothing I said contradicts what
ddixie884 said.
You said "The bullet of my interest is correctly a "158gr bullet14gr of 2400 powder giving @ 1300fps"..." and that is incorrect - the bullet of your interest is a "158gr bullet 14gr of
an unknown powder giving an
unknown velocity".
Tex1001 has stated that he measured a weight of 14.0 grains of an unknown powder, and that he has not chronographed the load - that is, he has not measured its muzzle velocity. We can guess that it might be 1300fps or so because that is typical of .357 Magnum ammo with a 158gr bullet, but that is only a guess. Being designed as armor piercing ammo, the velocity could be considerably higher.
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If 10gr "would be less than 1,000fps" then 8gr would be 850fps and enough to penetrate a body. But you didn't say at what distance ?
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ddixie884 was making educated guesstimates about potential bullet velocity using Hercules/Alliant 2400 powder (not the unknown powder of the original cartridge) - "less than 1000fps" could be a little less or a lot less. And sure, that Winchester AP bullet at 850fps could penetrate a body through and through. Or it might not, there is no way (without some real world experimentation) to determine that. I didn't say at what distance, because you had already specified contact distance.
When I first started reading this thread I thought of a quote:
"Everyone is ignorant, just on different subjects."
--Will Rogers
After having gone through it a couple of times, this quote from the character Mr. Garrison on the cartoon series "South Park" seems more appropriate:
"Remember kids, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people."
