Model 45/pre 45 rarity perplexing

MajorD · Mar 24, 2020

We all here know the model 45 series is a pretty rare and valuable revolver.
I find it strange that for decades the model 10 series guns were the most common police revolver around, and one would of expected a companion .22 training gun to be popular but wasn’t.
Anyone have any ideas why? Lack of marketing by the factory?
Or what.
Will likely never have one as from my perspective simply too costly, unless I stumbled into an amazing deal of some sort.
Perhaps this is a model worthy of a short “classic series”
Production run?

lawandorder · Mar 24, 2020

This just an uneducated guess . Part of it may be that the cost of the M&P in .22 caliber reduced the profit margins for S&W. Also lots of cheaper choices for .22 plinkers for general market .

The other part is that training is expensive. Hourly costs incured by Officers and Instructors, ammunition costs, range construction, outfitting and maintenance can add up.

Then also training time away from duty can run departments short on shifts.

It seems like since TR first mandated revolver practice for NYPD ,LE Administrators have viewed sidearm training as a necessary evil. Of course not realizing always that lack of proper training increases the government entity's, the department's, and those same administration's liability greatly.

If S&W ever does decide to resurrect the Model 45 I hope it occures after the funeral of the lock.

StrawHat · Mar 24, 2020

Back then, many departments “trained” with 38 wadcutters. Hardly enough recoil in a Model 10 to worry about going to a 22.

Kevin

Jim Watson · Mar 24, 2020

Many departments even loaded their own.

bgrafsr · Mar 24, 2020

Jim Watson said:
Many departments even loaded their own.

When I joined the Dept. in 1972, there was a Star loader in the basement set up for .38 caliber. It hadn't been used in quite some time, so I got permission to take it home and use it for my own loading. I cleaned it up and it worked great.
I even got a supply of lubed cast wadcutters and some primers to boot.

It was eventually sold by the Dept. to a gun shop I worked at and loaded for.

colt_saa · Mar 24, 2020

Like StrawHat, I do not believe there is enough of a reason to use 22LR among trained offers over a 38 special. Recoil can not possibly be an issue

To me the real surprise is that an agency would want something like the Model 45

It can not possibly be a practical Cost Savings in 1950s/1960s ammunition prices

How many rounds of .22 need to be fired just for an Agency to get to a break even point to cover the cost of the new firearms?

Then you have two sets of firearms to be inventoried.

Who stores the Model 45s after officers are issued their duty sidearms?

larryofcc · Mar 24, 2020

I can attest to their accuracy. My buddy took mine out and at 25 yards put near all 10 shots in the 10 ring. I have not fired it yet though. I am waiting for it to warm up and melt the snow. Big Larry

Old_Cop · Mar 24, 2020

SCS&W "Previously produced for the post office, coast guard and other government agencies", they were not concerned with breakeven. Still I think that it would have been a great kit gun.

DWalt · Mar 24, 2020

The Boston PD apparently had some.

Seems the majority of them went to the Post Office and were later destroyed. A fairly small number was sold on the commercial market, and there wasn't much of an effort by S&W (if any) made to promote and sell them, but I could only guess why not.

The only one I have seen is the one I own.

For those who may not know what a Model 45 is, it's simply a .22 M&P. Or maybe a K22 without target sights.

Walter Rego · Mar 24, 2020

I have a 1935 manufactured Colt Official Police in .22 caliber and a 6" barrel. It is a lot of fun to shoot although you can definitely feel the weight from only having the standard weight barrel and cylinder reamed to .22 dimensions. It would be interesting to see how many of that model that Colt's sold compared to their .38 version. Both S&W and Colt's had target grade/adjustable sight .22 revolvers in their lineups from the 1930's onward but they didn't really market them as "trainers" until around the time that the .38 Combat Masterpiece became available and a lot of officers switched from the old M&P's to that model. Then the .22 Combat Masterpiece made a lot of sense.

H Richard · Mar 24, 2020

Isn't that why they made the Mod 18? 4" K Frame .22RF, but with adjustable sights.

Drm50 · Mar 24, 2020

Until into the 60s not every Tom Dick and Harry had a 22 handgun that cost about a weeks pay for most people. Most who had the money were into bullseye target and would want adj sights.

bdGreen · Mar 24, 2020

They are a nicely made .22 a and easy to carry. Not a 'target' gun per se, but, you do your part and they will be good for you.

enjoy,
bdGreen

VictorLouis · Mar 25, 2020

Every Smith that looks like a Model 10 that I see, I eyeball hoping for it to be a M-45. I've never seen nor handled one in the 25yrs here in Phoenix.

austintexas · Mar 25, 2020

I bought mine years ago, an acquaintance of mine I knew from gun shop meetings had one. This guy was a perfectionist and every firearm he bought had to be perfect. He complained that he picked up a M-45 he wasn't happy with. It was NITB but he said it was one of the last ones made and was manufactured from left over parts. I took it off his hands for $450.00.
SWCA 892

DWalt · Mar 25, 2020

There are many postings about them here, but there's not a great deal of hard historical information about them. Somewhat like the M&Ps in .32 S&W Long. I have one of those also, again the only one I have ever run across. Allegedly, most of those were exported, but no one seems to know where.

raljr1 · Mar 29, 2020

DWalt said:
Somewhat like the M&Ps in .32 S&W Long. I have one of those also, again the only one I have ever run across. Allegedly, most of those were exported, but no one seems to know where.

I thought most 32 M&Ps had gone to Mexico. Mexico has laws limiting calibers for public use. They cannot have "military" calibers, so 32s, 38s,are common. My last trip there on business I thought to look around for one...not an easy task and I never even tried. I do want one, and like DWalt, the next one I see will be the first.

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Keith Brown · Mar 29, 2020

If there was ever a gun that needed adjustable sights its a .22, although neat from a collecting standpoint I don't see any use for it that a model 18 wouldn't serve better. I have one but only because the guy selling it knew it was different and he had never seen one before but had not researched it before selling.

viceunit · Mar 29, 2020

bgrafsr said:
When I joined the Dept. in 1972, there was a Star loader in the basement set up for .38 caliber. It hadn't been used in quite some time, so I got permission to take it home and use it for my own loading. I cleaned it up and it worked great.
I even got a supply of lubed cast wadcutters and some primers to boot.

It was eventually sold by the Dept. to a gun shop I worked at and loaded for.

Bill, our PD had one of those Star machines and our Auxiliaries would cast wadcutters and load up the practice ammo. We had a 55 gallon drum perpetually filled with these reloads. We used to scoop them out with a coffee can and hit the range. The loads were so weak you could actually see the bullet travel down range. We used to qualify monthly and could practice to your heart’s content. Who needs 22’s when you have a barrel full of 38 wadcutters?

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DWalt · Mar 29, 2020

Way back in my youth in my old Southern Ohio home town, the local Sheriff had trusties in the county jail loading .38 Special wadcutters for practice and training with a Star machine. I doubt the use of trusty labor for things like that would be allowed today. I guess if I were a trusty, I would enjoy that duty.

Model 45/pre 45 rarity perplexing

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