Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp
1- What swayed my thinking was the thought of Special Agent Ed Mireles trying to work an 870 pump one-handed during the 1986 Miami Shootout. I like the idea of self defense guns that can be operated one-handed if necessary, including long guns.
2- if I start getting into long guns, I plan on doing it as a lefty since I'm cross-dominant.
.... I'm more worried about getting hit in the face with ejected shells than being visually distracted.
3- .. they don't have passive safeties to keep a gun from discharging if dropped, l... keep the mag full but the chamber empty, .. when stored but ready for action if needed..
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1- There is quite some validity in such thought. I've come to believe what's espoused by instructor-author Stephen P. Wenger. There's much evidence to suggest that offender and defender alike tend to focus on the threat (the gun in hand), and direct shots to that threat. The significant likelihood of gun-hand injury prompted his caveat to have one gun accessible to each hand.
2- I am so afflicted, and have worked long-arms and bows LH all of my life.
I've shot 870, 590, Win. 1200, and even an old Savage pump and none are a concern for the south-of-paw. The original M16 in Basic was the only thing I've ever shot were I needed a snap-on case-deflector. Hence, the receiver goiter designed into the A1 updates.
3- Absolutely correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderboss
The target with a shotgun should be no different that the target with any other gun. Center mass.
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I went through LEO training 30+ yrs ago. While I don't recall the specifics, the general idea was that you 'rode' the shot discharge in recoil. IOW, at any sort of 'distance', you put the bead BELOW center mass, as the muzzle will rise BEFORE the shot leaves the bore. Now, it all boils down to patterning your gun/load at several differing distances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrnurse
Ive shot #7 shot at 12 Yds into a HD 5 gal water Bucket and it blew through it. Anyone who says it wont go through a Leather Jacket is ...well.... Kind of out of reality.
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x 2, Sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
1- I'm blown away by the poor information in this thread. Using #7.5 or smaller shot is a terrible idea for self-defense. Even at close range where it doesn't spread out a lot, because the pellets are so small, they won't penetrate enough to stop the bad guy.
2- The problem with this picture is that it's 2 dimensional. If you look critically at the pic and correlate the side pic with the back pic, you can see that this person was shot in the back and none of the pellets penetrated through the skin. In the skin yes, but not through
3-... when it hits the target, each pellet has to be counted as an individual. You don't get better penetration just because there are more of them.
4- The more time between impacts, the greater the chance the target has to recover.
5- At very close range, a yard or less, the 400 pellets from a 1 1/8oz load of #7.5 will do some serious damage.
6- But a load of 00Buck will do more damage because each individual pellet carries so much more mass.
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1- Each little pellet is not "An Army of One", LOL. They remain so close together at 'typical' household distance, the center core of the pattern is virtually a solid mass.
2- Huh? I am not referencing the pic as I type this part, but clearly have it lodged in my mind from it being repeated in this thread. You can clearly see several pellets in the black part of the pic, which is indeed the surface dermis, and possibly a bit of the fat underneath. That part of the pic in shades of white is flesh, organs..and bone. IIRC, it would appear that most of the pellets got about 1/3 of the way into the chest, with around like a dozen in what would appear to be the heart itself. Again, you can bet this chap was on the receiving end some distance away..thankfully for him. This X-ray would not be the same if the shootee were hit at a household distance.
3- Yes you do. They're riding each other's six, and slamming into one another like dominoes, compounding their 'individual' effect. (see 1-)
4- Technically, true. However, do you really think immeasurable MICRO-seconds between touch-down of pellet # ONE, and the hundreds of his remaining comrades is going to be noticeable by the physiology of the receiver???
5-Thank you for the honesty of that observation.
6- No disagreement...but, how about control of the gun? Repeat-ability of the shooter? Any pellet/s that may MISS. That one .33 can penetrate farther, and more likely to be a fatal hit, far in excess of one, or two, or a dozen little-bitty ones.
However, that's probably why there are no 'birdshot' loads marketed toward LE. You are responsible for each projectile. (Well, the courts have all BUT obviated most of their responsibility). Whole lot easier to 'splain one or two, rather than a dozen, even IF they're just itty-bitty.