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Old 12-04-2020, 02:40 PM
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Groo01 Groo01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Univibe View Post
Bottom Line:

A: .357 Sig and .40 S&W should never have been born; they are solutions looking for a non-existent problem. Now here's the heresy: The .45 ACP should also never have been born. It doesn't do anything to a person that a 9mm won't do just the same. They talk about the Moros, but never tell you the sequel, which is, the .45 didn't work any better than .38, and some Moros weren't even stopped by the .30-40 Krag rifle round.

B: 9mm Parabellum is all you need for anti-personnel work. The rest of the world somehow gets by without noticing any lack of lethality.

C: Big pistol cartridges are quintessentially American. They are useful for hunting, bear defense, and certain types of competition, but no more. Dirty Harry would have been better served with a Model 10 in .38 spl than the Magnum.

D: Shot placement and penetration are 100%. There is no evidence that can be gleaned from people who have been shot, be they living or dead, that hollow points, trick bullets, faster bullets, lighter bullets, heavier bullets, have any discernible differential effects.

E. They survive who put the most bullets in vital areas of the bad guy. The corollary is that more shots available is good, and less recoil means faster shots, which is even better. The conclusion from this is that the best cartridge is one that gives adequate penetration with the least recoil.

F: Building from E, in revolvers that is the .38 spl. In semi autos it's the 9mm, with the added benefit that in the semi, you also get the benefit of more rounds available.

G: In .357 Sig, you get a 9mm hopped up about another 200 fps or so from 9mm Parabellum. Since both cartridges will drive a bullet of ordinary weight (115 to 147 grains) to a speed that will penetrate adequately, you get no gain, but give up more recoil (slower shooting) and magazine capacity (fewer shots).

H: Generalizing from F and G, if you're carrying more than a .38 spl or a 9mm for self-protection, and don't have some rare highly specialized reason to do so (example: doubling as bear defense), you are overpowered and may pay the price.
Groo here
I agree BUT not for the reasons you name...
The 45acp is an extension of the 45 government [ aka 45 colt]
Guns for the cav. [aka horse mounted ]
The way to stop a cav charge is to hit the HORSE. [horse falls,causing all sorts of problems]
The effects on a person were secondary.[If it works on a 800lb horse a 200 lb man is easy.
The "rest of the world does not use 9mm "handguns" for primary SD.
The other countries use sub guns
Putting the hole in correct place is correct But,, as it takes 8 to 10 sec
for a person to pass out from blood loss. and this is the O2 in the brain
the number of holes means little.
The only advantage a 9mm has over a 38 is the number of rounds
[ allowing the shooter to fight without NEEDING to reload]
The reason for HP was not to make the bullet more EFFECTIVE but
to reduce target pass through and bullet bouncing of hard things [roads,
buildings etc][ I was there when they started]]
The hp still needs 1000fps to deform RELIABELY 900 for over 40cal
and that is at impact, so the more fps the quicker the bullet opens and slows down...
I never liked the idea of "well it is enough" rather "It will work no matter what."
As Keith said " Use enough gun"
Or JD Jones " pick the biggest thing you shoot well, then get the next thing larger and pratice, pratice, pratice,

Last edited by Groo01; 12-04-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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