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  #1  
Old 01-02-2010, 05:39 PM
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Default Spent case with new S&W guns....purpose?

What's the purpose of the one spent, or fired, case (inside the box, in a little, yellow, sealed manila envelope, signed by an employee and with the particular firearm's info) that comes with new S&W pistols?

Is this some sort of state-specific or federal requirement for new handguns, a fingerprint of sorts, to help match spent cases to a particular gun in the event of an incident where spent cases are left behind at the scene of the crime?
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:45 PM
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Another lame attempt to solve crimes. Only 2 states still use the database, NY and I believe Maryland. The other states dropped it. I believe since its being used one crime was solved in all the many years. I also believe the database cost over a million a year.

If you search around you can probably find the actually statistics out there.
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Old 01-02-2010, 06:40 PM
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sop,

That's exactly what it is. The idea was that the dealer would send the case in along with your identifiers and they would be entered into a database. If a spent casing were found at a crime scene, they would match them up and come knock on your door. I don’t know which if any states ever did or are still doing this maybe the Peoples Republic of California or "shudder" Massachusetts, I can tell you Arizona never did.
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:29 PM
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Red face

Sorry guys I just can't buy the conspiracy theory that the case is some sort of governmental evil way to track you and your gun. How could a casing you have, be used to track future shots fired by your gun? S&W says they test fire every gun they ship, one round and the spend casing in your box is the result.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Steve View Post
Sorry guys I just can't buy the conspiracy theory that the case is some sort of governmental evil way to track you and your gun. How could a casing you have, be used to track future shots fired by your gun? S&W says they test fire every gun they ship, one round and the spend casing in your box is the result.
Capt, not sure what you mean, but it is not a conspiracy theory but it is law in New York that the spent case from a new gun get sent in. I bought a new gun and it did not have a spent case and it had to be fired by the state police to get a case before I could take it home.

As I said above, Maryland still does it also.

Here is the NY law:

New York General Business Law § 396-ff(2) requires any firearms manufacturer that ships, transports or delivers a handgun to any person in New York to include a separate sealed container with a shell casing of a bullet or projectile discharged from the handgun, along with additional information that identifies the handgun and shell casing.
A state-licensed gunsmith or firearms dealer must, within ten days of delivering a handgun received on or after March 1, 2001, forward to the Division of State Police the sealed container enclosing the shell casing from the handgun. Section 396-ff(5). The state police must enter the pertinent ballistic information into an automated electronic databank (the “Combined Ballistic Identification System” or “CoBIS”) designed to ensure compatibility with national ballistic technology. Section 396-ff(6).
For detailed information on CoBIS, see N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. tit. 9, § 472.1 et seq.

Here is the Maryland law:


Pursuant to Maryland Code Annotated, Public Safety § 5-131(b), any manufacturer that ships or transports a handgun to be sold, rented, or transferred in Maryland shall include in the box with the handgun, in a separate sealed container:
  • A shell casing of a projectile discharged from that handgun; and
  • Additional information that identifies the type of handgun and shell casing.
Upon receipt of a handgun from the manufacturer, a firearms dealer shall confirm with the Department of State Police ("DSP") that the manufacturer complied with the provisions of section 5-131(b). Section 5-131(c)(1). When the handgun is sold, rented, or transferred, the dealer shall forward the sealed container to the DSP crime laboratory. Section 5-131(c)(2). Once received, the DSP crime laboratory shall enter the information in all pertinent databases to assist in the tracing of guns that are later stolen or used in crimes. Section 5-131(d).
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Last edited by Hunt200; 01-02-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:12 PM
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Default Combined Ballistic Identification System

Believe it, its called COBIS for "Combined Ballistic Identification System" like I said I dont know which states actually use it but that is what the spent casing is for. The below Q and A's are from the New York State Police website.

Q - What are the responsibilities of a licensed dealer in firearms upon receipt of pistols and revolver into inventory?

A - A dealer in firearms that receives a new pistol or revolver from a manufacturer on or after March 1, 2001, shall upon receipt, ensure that the firearm is accompanied by a properly completed and sealed approved container enclosing a ballistic sample.


Q - What are a gun dealer's options if the manufacturer fails to ship a cartridge casing with a pistol or revolver?
A - A licensed dealer in firearms has two choices in such cases. Within 10 days of receipt of the firearm he or she can either:

Send the gun back to the manufacturer (or distributor or importer) and inform them of the obligation to provide a cartridge; or
Take the gun to a regional CoBIS Center operated by the State Police, where it will be test fired and the cartridges will be submitted directly to the CoBIS databank.

Q - When does a licensed dealer in firearms have to submit a cartridge supplied by a manufacturer, and to whom must it be sent?
A- Within 10 days after retail sale and delivery of the pistol or revolver, the licensed firearms dealer must send the cartridge casing along with the usual P-12 form to:

New York State Police CoBIS Center
Building 30, 1220 Washington Avenue
Albany, NY 12226-3000


Here is a link to the FAQ section of the New York State Police re: their COBIS program,

CoBIS FAQS (Combined Ballistic Identification System)

Last edited by Arizona Commander; 01-02-2010 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Steve View Post
Sorry guys I just can't buy the conspiracy theory that the case is some sort of governmental evil way to track you and your gun.
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:36 PM
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I just bought an HK from a dealer in state. Had the fired shell casing. First time in Pa. that happened.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Beemer-mark View Post
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.
LMAO, must agree completely. Every S&W I have bought has come with one spent shell casing in the box with the gun. My Bersa did not come with a spent shell casing, go figure??? They were all purchased in California or Arizona. If I was told wrong, so be it.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:14 AM
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The spent shell casing was just another of the poor ideas to battle gun crime that seems to only cost money and offer no true useful help in reducing crime.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:12 PM
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Default Thanks for the info...

and confirming what I suspected.

The gun shop owners and the CCW instructor (in Florida) I asked about this were unaware of the situation, they also thought it was some sort of proof-firing test result provided by S&W and other manufacturers. I've gotten proof targets, demonstrating multi-round groupings, included with a few guns I've purchased over the years, mostly Sigs, but never the spent case in a sealed envelope thing.

I suppose this will now prompt criminals to use revolvers instead of semi-autos when they gun someone down.

Last edited by sop; 01-12-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:40 PM
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Spent casing is included with most hand guns as it is required in at least (NY as stated elsewhere on this thread) one of the states it is sold in. They include in all as SOP.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:51 AM
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Those samples that are provided from revolvers will really help solve a lot of crimes.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
I supose this will now prompt criminals to use revolvers instead of semi-autos when they gun someone down.
Not likely. They don't ever catch anybody with it.

The Maryland State Police requested the legislature to stop the "ballistic fingerprint" library program, citing that it had never solved a crime and had only been used after the gun and criminal were in custody, where the same evidence could be obtained without the library.
The Maryland SP wanted to use the men and money for regular police work instead of maintaining a useless library of empty cartridges.
The Maryland legislature kept the program "to send a political message."
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:55 PM
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Let me see.........it allows the members of the legislature to explain to the sheep that they, the legislators, have justified their existence!!!

Simply another total waste of your tax dollars so someone has a warm, fuzzy, feeling!
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Not likely. They don't ever catch anybody with it.

The Maryland State Police requested the legislature to stop the "ballistic fingerprint" library program, citing that it had never solved a crime and had only been used after the gun and criminal were in custody, where the same evidence could be obtained without the library.
The Maryland SP wanted to use the men and money for regular police work instead of maintaining a useless library of empty cartridges.
The Maryland legislature kept the program "to send a political message."
I wish I could remember the cost of the program, it was in the millions. The MD State Police wanted to use the money for programs that caught criminals. What do they know -
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:44 PM
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You're supposed to take it out and add it to your brass bucket.
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