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  #1  
Old 09-04-2010, 06:16 PM
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:49 PM
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This is but another method of the government getting back-door gun-control. They cannot prohibit ownership via legislative means, so they will implement all of the controls that they can via administrative and bureaucratic methods.

It is time for the citizens of this country to take back their government from the bureaucrats and professional politicians. Voter mandates in November should send a message and the preservation of the Second Amendment needs to be a part of that message. We should all contact our legislators, federal and state, and get them to sign-on to preservation of veterans' rights and mandate the government to honor these rights and not have blanket authority to withhold these rights from anyone. Vote in November and write your federal and state people now.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:54 AM
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If his wife is able to own guns, then there is no reason why there cannot be guns in the home.

The article I read did not go into detail about his medical condition. If he spent time in a mental ward due to PSD, then he may not be able to own weapons. A lack of a violent actions in the past does not mean it would not be in the future.

I find it difficult to believe that this man would be singled out for no apparent reason. My best guess is he was found to be unstable by those that have dealt with him medically and knows his history.

People with PSD have caused death and injury to many over the years, There may be reasons the media was not aware of and HIPPA keeps medical records private so the full story may never be known.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:22 AM
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The VA gave him the label of PSD, Incompetent and what ever else is on his file. So with that said, he needs to fight that first, and than the rest should fall into place. When reading the article read the comments also. There's more to this than what is in the article.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oamaam View Post
The VA gave him the label of PSD, Incompetent and what ever else is on his file. So with that said, he needs to fight that first, and than the rest should fall into place. When reading the article read the comments also. There's more to this than what is in the article.
It may well be that he is not violent but rather suicidal. Many have lost the right to have firearms due to expressing publically they would rather die.

Again, there is too much not being told for any reader to make a decsion in this matter.

I have dealt with violent felons that expressed concerns that they ought to be able to keep their guns. Some of these were former US soldiers. I am sorry but being a vet does not mean one is going to continue to be qualified to own a gun.

If doctors with years of training and education feels someone should not have a gun, then I will trust their decision.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:36 AM
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This is a hard one to answer, but like oldman45 I have met many felons who claim veteran status, in fact we have a Vet coordinator in the system to help with V.A. benifits for them.

As far as the diagnosis by the V.A. doctors I remember a post from a few months ago that warned of this. I have spoken to Vets who avoid the doctors just because of this and forgo any monetary benifit. I am sure that he could find doctors for a different opinion.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
It may well be that he is not violent but rather suicidal. Many have lost the right to have firearms due to expressing publically they would rather die.

Again, there is too much not being told for any reader to make a decsion in this matter.

I have dealt with violent felons that expressed concerns that they ought to be able to keep their guns. Some of these were former US soldiers. I am sorry but being a vet does not mean one is going to continue to be qualified to own a gun.

If doctors with years of training and education feels someone should not have a gun, then I will trust their decision.
Being a Veteran, and going to the VA, you see things in people that make you think twice. I do not think that needs explanation. Regarding this vets situation, the story is incomplete, and there's allot more to it than what we're seeing.

Different area, and different views.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:24 AM
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We have no way of knowing what all the facts are in this situation, so I don't want to take a side one way or the other. However, one statement in the article struck me as odd: "The ATF has told the Irelans that they could go to jail if a firearm is found in their home." So, Mrs. Irelan looses her Second Amendment rights too? So everybody in the home gets locked up because one family member suffers from a mental illness. That doesn't sound logical.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4zov View Post
We have no way of knowing what all the facts are in this situation, so I don't want to take a side one way or the other. However, one statement in the article struck me as odd: "The ATF has told the Irelans that they could go to jail if a firearm is found in their home." So, Mrs. Irelan looses her Second Amendment rights too? So everybody in the home gets locked up because one family member suffers from a mental illness. That doesn't sound logical.
The same thing happens with a convicted felon in the household. A family member can own firearms but they have to be locked out of reach from the felon. G. Gordon Liddy was unable to own but his wife could so all guns stayed in her gun safe. My bet is Mr Liddy could access any gun he wanted.

I would like to add that some medication will take away the right to carry or purchase. A friend of mine was being treated for mental depression and on a medicine that caused the State Police to turn him down for a permit. He could not buy a firearm either. This man is an attorney and not a vet. After he was taken off the meds for six months, he got his gun permit and able to buy guns.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:08 PM
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My main concern is that that SGT Irelan is restored to health. The rest will take care of itself. As others have pointed out, there's no conspiracy or irregularity here. The right to purchase or carry firearms has long been subject to one's being free from disability, whether legal or medical in nature.
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Old 09-05-2010, 05:15 PM
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There is a lot more to this story if one will google the guy. But it may be best to read this blog before too long.

John Lott's Website
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:21 AM
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I don't know about other VA medical facilitys but the hospital at Oteen N.C. has an entrance sign up stateing 'no firearms allowed on this property'. I don't agree with it but I follow the rules because as stated in earlier post I can see where some vet could get angry over some situation - and believe me there are 'situations' in the VA system. just a few months back an angry vet pulled out a shotty and started waveing it around, turned out to be no loaded and the VA cops talked hin into giveing it up no shooting involved. IIRC it's not the only time that's happened and I personally know a vet (unfortunately he does have real problems) that pulled out a large live rattlesnake he had in his auto in a sack - he was going to sell it to a nearby snake collector) and got to waveing it around in the reception area. he is fairly well known there and some of the gaurds talked him into takeing it outside. he told me them old vets was smoking the tires on their wheelchairs hauling ash away from him and the ones on crutches was sprinting. he ran outside into some bushes unaware the fence was behind it and hit a fence pole knocking himself out. promptly taken to the section 8 ward for 2 weeks 'rest'.
lucky for me a relative lives nearby about 5 miles away so I go to her place and drop off my CCW then go the VA for my bizz.
I hope sgt irelan gets the treatment he deserves.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:32 AM
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I have also noted the questioning at my VA clinic visits. I just explain to them how happy I am to be alive, living in a house with no mortgage, enjoying 9 grandchildren and a great-grandson! Life is good for me.

I remember reading G. Gordon Liddy's autobiography "Will" in which he explained that, as a convicted felon, he was prohibited from possessing firearms, but his wife had an extensive collection some of which were stored on his side of the bed.

Interesting approach to the problem. They may be able to get away with restricting Sgt. Irlan's 2nd Amendment rights, but there is no way to extend such restrictions to other members of his household.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:08 PM
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Just in for my routine 6 mo. visit checking my BP etc. Primary care doc was pissed that he had to ask those questions. I told him I loved the world, didn't want to commit suicide and didn't see any munchkins or green men in the yard. Well two out of three ain't bad.

Damn stupid, but it goes along with this administrations notion that all returning vets could be terrorists.

Seems like there was some bill introduced that would get the vets their rights back after a diagnosis of PTSD. I think the opposition blocked that, but I'm not sure.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
If his wife is able to own guns, then there is no reason why there cannot be guns in the home.

The article I read did not go into detail about his medical condition. If he spent time in a mental ward due to PSD, then he may not be able to own weapons. A lack of a violent actions in the past does not mean it would not be in the future.

I find it difficult to believe that this man would be singled out for no apparent reason. My best guess is he was found to be unstable by those that have dealt with him medically and knows his history.

People with PSD have caused death and injury to many over the years, There may be reasons the media was not aware of and HIPPA keeps medical records private so the full story may never be known.
My understanding is that one needs to be declared incompitant by a judge in order for it to have the force of law. Otherwise we'd have anti-gun therapists and docs declareing people insain all the time.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:13 AM
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My 2 cents...: along with others I agree that there is a lot missing from the posted link...on the one side we re-deploy soldiers with PTSD and don't have "mass-murders" happening in FOBs/COBs etc...on the other each case of PTSD is unique and while some live with it and have no violent outbreaks others don't...I may have missed it in the original article and in the discussion forum posted by another member, but I have to agree with springfeildkid as I also thought that there has to be some legal authority who decides competency based upon medical review prior to any prohibition...
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanjimg View Post
My main concern is that SGT Irelan is restored to health. The rest will take care of itself. As others have pointed out, there's no conspiracy or irregularity here. The right to purchase or carry firearms has long been subject to one's being free from disability, whether legal or medical in nature.
Good point. The 2nd Amendment is a right that comes with responsibilities.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:53 AM
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My concern is (leaving this individual case out) is how many vets will refuse to seek help because of the fear of loosing their 2nd Amend. rights?

I'm afraid way too many. Not all PTSD people are dangerous, but still need help.
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Old 10-21-2011, 01:04 PM
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The Veterans Administration did not take away the soldier's 2A rights. His Concealed Carry Permit was revoked by Arkansas, not the VA. Soldier goes to the VA for treatment, gets the treatment he needs, and the state takes action based on that treatment. And now everybody wants to blame the VA.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy View Post
My concern is (leaving this individual case out) is how many vets will refuse to seek help because of the fear of loosing their 2nd Amend. rights?

I'm afraid way too many. Not all PTSD people are dangerous, but still need help.
There are way more than you could imagine. Trust me, I know!
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticSire View Post
The Veterans Administration did not take away the soldier's 2A rights. His Concealed Carry Permit was revoked by Arkansas, not the VA. Soldier goes to the VA for treatment, gets the treatment he needs, and the state takes action based on that treatment. And now everybody wants to blame the VA.
That's the crux of the problem..

If you read a Form 4473

Quote:
f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court. board. commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage Your own affairs OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions/or Question II.()
He went to the VA.
The VA acknowledge his claim of PTSD.
The state did their job of checking records.

His only recourse is to get the VA to reverse his claim, something I do not think he wants..

100% disability is running around $3,000 a month.. I have no idea what Mr Irlan is receiving,, BUT the current VA administration has made it very easy to claim PTDS.. and that leads to 100% disability, factor in his PH, wife, kids and it may be higher.

There are two edges to the sword..

I wish Mr Irelan a speedy recovery..
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:55 AM
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SGT irelan has NOT been judged mentally defective simply by being diagnosed with PTSD. If his diagnosis contains information that would lead to a finding that his PTSD makes him a threat to himself or others, then that would be grounds for revoking his concealed carry permit. BUT, the diagnosis of PTSD, in and of itself, is not. Also, he has not lost his 2A rights, at least according to the information presented in the article. He has had the privilege of carrying concealed in the state of Arkansas revoked. As far as the statement that "ATF said we will both go to jail if we have guns in the house" or words to that effect, that quote did not come from an ATF official. While I empathize with SGT Irelan, this is not a VA issue, it is an Arkansas issue. He can appeal the revocation and a good VA advocate can get him the documentation needed to win that appeal. Too many people think that simply because a service member is diagnosed with PTSD that it is an immediate justification for taking away firearms. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:07 PM
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Their coming to take me away ha ha their coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha to the VA Funny Farm were life is beautiful all the time!

Yep, you can check into Hotel VA but you can never leave!

We are not getting the whole story from AK. If he told VA psych he wanted to kill himself or he felt like hurting others he is screwed. Not for ever, but until he no longer has those type of feelings over a good amount of time.(I do not know how long a time frame) I believe it's a case by case deal.

I don't know AK law, but I will say I have had and still have dealings with VA psych and I have had no problem buying a pistol in OH. I'm going to CCW class next month so we will see how that goes.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:57 PM
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The whole VA needs revamped. 100% disability for PTSD. Give me a break. All those WWII vets are rolling in their graves.
I've got a co-worker who collects a VA disability for asthma yet he can play hockey and do anyhting I can do. It's time for the VA to get rid of these sick bay commandos that claim disability and give it to the people that deserve it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:51 PM
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A diagnosis of PTSD is not an automatic 100% rating.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:49 PM
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I have a friend who is a Marine, has PTSD from Viet Nam, and is 100% disabled for VA purposes. He has told me to get the VA benefits I have coming to me, and I told him I absolutely refuse to do so because of the nonsense the VA pulls, and also because there are Vets who need the benefits a whole lot more than I do. We both have decent police pensions and excellent health benefits too. On our (the taxpayer's dime) the VA just got finished re-doing his master bathroom for his "disabilities". They even wanted to put in one of those little sit down elevators that attaches to the wall so he did not have to physically climb the stairs. At least he said no to that, which surprised me. I keep telling him if he lost 150 pounds (he weighs about 350), most of his disabilities would go away, but he always has an excuse or two. I also told him to not be surprised when some day, the bureaucrats come knocking on his door to take his guns away from him. He says it won't happen. Yeah, right.......

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Old 10-27-2011, 03:42 AM
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I keep trying to figure out if this is true. On the one hand I know a number of 100% SC Viet Nam vets who have PTSD and usually problems related to wounds from Viet Nam. They own guns and have carry permits. A couple are NRA instructors and teach carry clases. I'm wondering if the guys who run into trouble are folks that the VA declares Incompetent to handle their funds ( sometimes a pretty arbitrary designation ) and then the feds pick up on that and misuse the financial incompetency to stop gun purchases.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:24 AM
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Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:20 PM
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Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
Question, You ever been in the Military? I'm going to go out on a short limb and say I doubt it.

You know it's real easy to recognize a physical disability, a Vet in a wheelchair, a Vet missing an arm, a Vet with half his face shot away. Not so easy to see what is going on or not going on in the brain. Just because a Vet did not see combat does not mean that he is faking a disability.

You see, I was in the Navy 14 years, I was in Desert Storm, I was on a Destroyer, DDG 46 USS Preble. We did interdiction duty. I did not set foot in the sand. In June of 1992 the Navy Honorably discharged me for Unspecified Personality Disorder. Fast forward, April 2009, the VA desides, I'm no longer able to work. So I'm screwed, how do I survive. I apply for Non-Service Connected Pension through the VA and get it. I get $985 month.

You live on less than a grand a month and tell me how that works for you!
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:48 PM
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never saw any combat, took a few mortars,
Taking mortars is no longer combat? Try telling that to the families of the soldiers I served with who were killed by mortars...
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:40 AM
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This link came from the NRA this morning Congressman Denny Rehberg : News Releases : Rehberg Measure to Protect Second Amendment Rights for Vets Clears House of Representatives.

I don't know if it is the case for this guy, but if you read the article, it does explain how it *could* have happened. Regardless, it is interesting and probably good legislation.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by szuppo View Post
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
The more I read this post, the more it really gets under my skin. You have no idea how many of the National Guard unit did or did not apply for disability, yet you make a blanket claim that they "probably' did. You also talk about WWII vets and how they didn't "whine" or "cry". That's because we didn't recognize what PTSD was and how it affected veterans and their families back then. Then you go on to say how taking a few mortars isn't 'real' combat. And how they should be ashamed, but aren't. I see your EGA in your profile, so I'm assuming you want people to believe you were a Marine. Ever see combat? No. Ever spend time in a Wounded Warrior Unit? No, you haven't. Ever had to write a letter to the family of a soldier killed by one of your "not real combat" mortars? You can bet your life you haven't. Ever spend mulitiple tours in a combat zone where little kids are used as human bombs to kill you and your buddies? Where mortars and rockets are a daily occurrence? Help put fellow soldiers, and Marines, and Air Force or Navy or Coast Guard in body bags for shipment back home after one of your "not real combat" mortar attacks hits a chow hall? You couldn't. Why don't you quit "whining and crying" about what real veterans do and stick to something you know about. People like you, especially if you really were a Marine, make me puke. You want to sit on the sidelines and talk about how undeserving we are as combat veterans because of how YOU think war should be. The only thing you know of war is from playing Halo. Shut up.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:21 AM
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On the issue of military personnel not in the direct line of fire I would like to weigh in. In my career I met more vets than I can count who had clear cut PTSD and who were never under direct fire. Here are a few examples : accident crash investigators for the Air Force who had to clean up crash sites, folks who worked flight decks on carriers and saw people killed or maimed, graves registration people, medics, nurses or corpman working trauma scenes or in places like Guam during the Viet Nam war, folks on hospital ships who helped unload the dead and wounded, and men and women who were sexually assaulted in the service by colleagues or superiors. I could go on. My unscientific heirarchy for what I think could ( certainly not always ) lead to PTSD are graves registration, corpman-medic-nurse, and then grunt . These are some of the people who I personally met in the course of my job.

The DSM IV doesn't require combat to diagnose PTSD. Here is the definition used by the American Psychiatric Association for the stressor necessary to possibly cause PTSD:

" The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

1.The person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with an event or events that involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others.
2.The person's response involved intense fear,helplessness, or horror. "
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:18 AM
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I have a disability rating from the VA for PTSD, and I assure any of you who doubt it, that PTSD is real and serious, but it doesn't automatically cause you to lose your right to carry or own firearms.

Some of the **** posted in this thread by ignorant people gets me really ticked off, but doesn't make me a threat.

I am an NRA certified instructor, and I have PTSD. No connection really.

However, I did want to say that mr szuppo is full of bull and offensive to some of us who lost parts of our minds or memories to the horrors of war.

You can't see all wounds nor can you group all vet's the same, whether they saw combat every day or took a mortar now and again.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:13 AM
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As to what constitutes PTSD and who can handle which horrors and such - I will not weigh in. I served in peacetime and won't tell anyone about THEIR experience - combat or otherwise - and what each man or woman can do to deal with it. I do think that there is honorable intent in getting the current war vets the treatment that their forefathers never had available. Too often, the vets of previous wars were treated as fire and forget weapons - discarded when the need was over.

What I do know is that, yes, the V.A. is awash in bureaucratic waste, fraud, and abuse, as are many government programs. Not only that but too many clinicians who work in the V.A. health system do have negative biases against the very people they are there to treat. Too many vets have little idea what a simple answer on a form can cause them to have to endure.

As to getting a VA disability, yep, the stipend is available but as too many cases point out, it can come at the price of your personal liberty.

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Old 11-20-2011, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szuppo View Post
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
This is really hienous. Things affect different guys different ways. One guy will get hit and have his 3 best friends die around him and he'll go back to base have the shrapnel pulled out eat dinner and is ready to get right back in the thick of it the next morning. Another guy fients from fear of combat getting on the rotator as soon as he boards it in Atlanta airport. You can call one of them a p***y or whatever but if you haven't picked up a rifle who are you to judge?

Bottom line is you send guys into combat and you have stuff like this happen. I'm sure there are guys abusing the system, but the vast majority suffering from PTSD are actually suffering from it. What caused it and their "breaking point" varies a lot and many who have it have been through less than many who don't but that doesn't make them any less "REAL". We all do our part as best we can an that "best we can" threshold varies.

For what it is worth I have been in combat, I've been fired on many times and I've fired on the enemy twice. I don't think I killed anyone (I'm grateful for that). I've lost friends but I've never watched a friend die (I'm grateful for that too). I am also grateful that I don't suffer from PTSD but I chalk that up to luck and I don't think it is because I am any tougher or better than anyone who does suffer from it.

Oh and for what it is worth, there was plenty of PTSD in WW2 ... it was just called "shell shock" because they didn't have a clinical name for it. You are right those guys didn't get treatment for it, but I don't think that is neccesarily a good thing. I would cll that society failing to follow through and pay their debt after they sent those soldiers, sailors and Marines into combat.

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Old 11-21-2011, 12:07 AM
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Very hard call.

When does a mental health professional -- whose primary duty is to the patient -- became required to take steps that infringe on that same patient's Constitutional rights? See Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasof..._of_California
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:42 AM
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There are thousands of truck drivers, cooks, clerks, etc etc, that could really benefit from some therapy and maybe some medication, and it would transform their lives, but they aren't going to ask for help, because they "were only a..." They are actually the majority of the ones not getting the help they need at VA, so that they could sleep better, have better personal relationships, feel better about their contribution, both in the service, and everywhere else, and be able to live out a normal life span. You know, there were a lot more truck drivers and cooks, than tunnel rats, well, unless you've been hanging around in one of those bars... The folks that held these "Lowly" positions suffer from survivors guilt, the primary symtom of PTSD, along, of course, with denial-the "ain't nothin' wrong with me, let somebody else go for the help, those scum bags that didn't wade through blood and guts like I did bunch.They could certainly use some help, if not for PTSD-then something else. You know, I went where I was told to go, and did what I was told to do when I was in the armed forces, so I really have nothing to say about what somebody else did. I would NEVER demean another persons service. Also-it always makes me laugh whenever I hear the words "easy" and "VA" used close to each other in someones response. That automatically qualifies them as lacking any working knowledge of things "VA". There have been some improvements in how supporting evidence is gathered and offered, making it the way it should have been all along, but anyone who has gotten any of the things promised to us by the government from the VA didn't have anesy time getting it, probably deserved more than they got, and should have gotten it a lot sooner. Oh, and there are many "Psychological Issues" that don't make the person "mentaly incompetant" which is a good thing for a sizable percentage of those who posted on this subject. The ignorance of the things of mental health continue to predominate in our society. If you go to a mental health facility-you are nutz. By the way, the legislation refered to before by Cong. Rehberg is H R 2349-and specifically adresses protecting Veterans who have received "mental Health Decisions" against the loss of the right to posess firearms. My friends, mental illness in general, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in particular, is much misunderstood thing. By the way-service members are the smallest group of PTSD sufferers, rape victims constitute the largest group, and I hope all of them are armed. Flapjack.
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