Illegal Immigrants and Gun Ownership

panhandle_gunslinger · #1 10-20-2011, 10:01 AM

Hello...here in Texas, Illegal Immigrants can apply for and receive college grants and loans. I think it's just us and California that has this law (I could be wrong). My question is: how long do you think that it will take before an illegal immigrant can apply for and receive his CHL (concealed handgun license)? It's scary to think that this may be a real possibility considering the path our nation is on regarding immigrants. What do ya'll think?

Pasifikawv · #2 10-20-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle_gunslinger

Hello...here in Texas, Illegal Immigrants can apply for and receive college grants and loans. I think it's just us and California that has this law (I could be wrong). My question is: how long do you think that it will take before an illegal immigrant can apply for and receive his CHL (concealed handgun license)? It's scary to think that this may be a real possibility considering the path our nation is on regarding immigrants. What do ya'll think?

CA and TX students who are state residents but lack federal status (Student Visa, LPR Visa, etc.) can pay their tuition at in-state rates, but ARE NOT eligible federally-subsidized student aid (Perkins Loans, Stafford Loans, Pell Grants, etc.)

Only immigrants that have status as Lawful Permanent Residents may exercise their 2A rights in the USA. Those individuals (green card holders) have the same 2A rights as citizens and may purchase firearms and obtain CHL/CCWs. Any state law that restricts CCW/CHL to "citizens only" and denies permits to Lawful Permanent Residents is violating the 2A. (A "citizen-only" Virginia law that prohibits LPR's from purchasing long-guns of the AR/AK style is also un-Constitutional, IMO.)

Those present in the USA with temporary status (i.e. visitor visas (B), work visas (HB), student visas (K), etc.) are prohibited persons and cannot lawfully purchase firearms. (International visitors spending a day at a range and renting a range gun is a permissible tourist activity, but they cannot leave with the firearm.)

Those present without any status or current documents (illegal border crossers, overstayers, expired visa holders) are prohibited persons and cannot lawfully purchase firearms.

These classes of immigrants (documented but temporary, expired/overstay/undocumented, and illegal border crossers) are all prohibited persons. No state can or will make CHL/CCW to prohibited persons. No person, FFL, or entity can lawfully transfer a firearm to these prohibited persons. (Exception: International gun gurus with specific import/export permits from both the US gov't and their home country's gov't.)

CHL/CCW for persons unlawfully present in the US is a non-issue. Methinks the initial posts is more about politically bashing immigrants than about gun rights. I am not sure it meets the forum guidelines for Second Amendment topics.

OFT II · #3 10-20-2011, 02:29 PM

If the application process is handled properly an illegal should not be able to pass the background check. I doubt that any illegal would want to have the check performed on him as it would have to list his home address and make him subject to arrest. If he uses a bogus address then he wouldn't be able to get a CCL. But then do illegals worry about packing legally anyway?

Maximumbob54 · #4 10-20-2011, 02:36 PM

I still can't figure why I have to sumit an I9 form for every job I have ever had and yet these people have income and go to college. I must be doing it all wrong.

Nico Testosteros · #5 10-20-2011, 03:07 PM

The right to self defense is the only permit anyone should need, no matter where they were lucky, or unlucky, to be born.

off road · #6 10-21-2011, 05:50 AM

In CA (where a CCW is difficult to obtain), you must prove residency and that you are a citizen or legal alien, to buy a firearm from a dealer. This would at least be a deterent from illegal aliens obtaining a gun from a dealer, but there are lots of street guns out there so it would be easy for an illegal to get a gun anyway.

You must be a US citizen over 18 years of age to transport a handgun in a motor vehicle (does not apply to long guns). If not a citizen, one must use one of the 'exceptions'....for example you would need to be able to prove that you were coming and going directly between your home and place of business, coming and going directly from the range, etc.

A citizen on the other hand can be coming and going from anywhere! In other words, if not a citizen you cannot just drive around anywhere with a handgun in your car.....

CelticSire · #7 10-21-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle_gunslinger

Hello...here in Texas, Illegal Immigrants can apply for and receive college grants and loans. I think it's just us and California that has this law (I could be wrong).

You are. They can't.

EdnAZ · #8 10-21-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle_gunslinger

My question is: how long do you think that it will take before an illegal immigrant can apply for and receive his CHL (concealed handgun license)? It's scary to think that this may be a real possibility considering the path our nation is on regarding immigrants. What do ya'll think?

After 18 USC 922 (g)(5)(A) and (B) are repealed.

mike from st pete · #9 10-22-2011, 03:13 PM

Illegal/undocumented immigrant = fugitive
And if I remember the yellow form asks if the purchaser is a fugitive. Should be a disqualified if answered yes, should be prosecuted if answered no.

auburn2 · #10 11-16-2011, 07:24 PM

Can people convicted of speeding get a CHL? Can people convicted of jaywalking get a CHL? Can people who are littering get a CHL? Can people who are stealing cable get a CHL?

They are all breaking the law, if those people can get a CHL then immigrants who are allegedly commiting a misdemeanor by being in the country should be able to as well.

I know a lot of folks will disagree with me but that is the way I see it.

CelticSire · #11 11-16-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn2

Can people convicted of speeding get a CHL? Can people convicted of jaywalking get a CHL? Can people who are littering get a CHL? Can people who are stealing cable get a CHL?

They are all breaking the law, if those people can get a CHL then immigrants who are allegedly commiting a misdemeanor by being in the country should be able to as well.

I know a lot of folks will disagree with me but that is the way I see it.

You're arguing apples and oranges. For starters, they're called ILLEGAL immigrants for a reason. Second, they are specifically forbidden from legally purchasing firearms. And being in the country illegally is not a misdemeanor. Misdemeanors are state charges. Immigration laws are Federal.

681ismyfavorite · #12 11-16-2011, 08:27 PM

What recourse is there to compell an ILLEGAL alien to pay back student loans?

681ismyfavorite · #13 11-16-2011, 08:29 PM

most state laws say if you can legally BUY a gun you can legally carry it via permit if required.....

the last FFL papers i filled out to buy a gun asked if i was in this country illegally......im guessing YES is a disqualifier?

NKJ nut · #14 11-18-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn2

Can people convicted of speeding get a CHL? Can people convicted of jaywalking get a CHL? Can people who are littering get a CHL? Can people who are stealing cable get a CHL?

They are all breaking the law, if those people can get a CHL then immigrants who are allegedly commiting a misdemeanor by being in the country should be able to as well.

I know a lot of folks will disagree with me but that is the way I see it.

Well, on form 4473 question 11k asks "are you an alien illegally in the united states? Question 11L asks "are you a non-immigrant alien?" Question 12 lists some qualifications that must be met if you are a nonimmigrant alien. Of course an illegal alien could commit a felony by giving a false answer and sign that he knows it is a felony on line number 16. Either way he's not going to be getting a firearm. Exceptions for those who are LEGAL aliens are listed in the instructions on page 5. The dealer selling the firearm will have to record on form 4473 on question 20 c, d additional documentation which will include but not be limited to a "valid government-issued photo id".

So if the government will not allow Illegal aliens to purchase a firearm , then it is doubtful they would issue a permit to carry the gun that Jose Illegalazz does not have.

On the other hand i have not read anything in government regulations about restrictions for jaywalkers, litterers, spinach haters, readers of romance novels and so forth.

oldRoger · #15 11-24-2011, 01:13 AM

NKJ nut; the implication is that you must be of sound mind---so I think we could make a case against readers of romance novels.

Bicky Robby · #16 11-24-2011, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn2

Can people convicted of speeding get a CHL? Can people convicted of jaywalking get a CHL? Can people who are littering get a CHL? Can people who are stealing cable get a CHL?

They are all breaking the law, if those people can get a CHL then immigrants who are allegedly commiting a misdemeanor by being in the country should be able to as well.

I know a lot of folks will disagree with me but that is the way I see it.

This may be the most insulting, un-American statement I have read in a long time.

WOW! Equating US citizens who meet the lawful criteria for obataining a concealed weapons permit, to a person who has unlawfully taken up residence in the US and therefore is not legally allowed to have a firearm, let alone a permit to carry.

NKJ nut · #17 11-26-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldRoger

NKJ nut; the implication is that you must be of sound mind---so I think we could make a case against readers of romance novels.

Why, because you have a low opinion of romance novels; or is it because you think people shouldn't be able to choose their own reading material?