We have to focus on the real problem

Speer4 · #1 03-20-2013, 08:37 AM

Like everyone else, I have been concerned about the proposed gun legislation and the general erosion of freedom here in the United States. We are putting a lot of effort into defending our rights. Many are exerting tremendous effort to stockpile guns and ammunition in case these laws pass.

I think we are missing the real issue here. Why are these rights even in question in the first place? It is because of our "elected" officials. These people have been "chosen" by the majority of the citizens to represent them. They chose President Obama the second time, knowing exactly what they were getting. Senator Feinstein has been reelected repeatedly. The list goes on and on.

We are losing our freedoms because Americans are voting for it by whom they elect. I guess I should correct that. We are losing our freedoms because of who "we" elect. We are part of the American people and, even if we do not personally vote for these people, as Americans, cumulatively we voted these people into office.

I don't think it is going to be enough to cast our votes for candidates that support our freedoms and then say "I did my part". Those that support the election of these anti-freedom representatives are working harder than we are. They are winning in many cases.

So if we took all the effort we are putting into building our own arsenals and writing to congressmen and women who will not listen to us because their minds are made up, and put that effort into campaigning for the right candidates. Maybe we could prevent the anti-freedom politicians from getting into office in the first place.

I know some of you do this already, but many of us, myself included have relied on others to do this. I thought voting was enough, but obviously it is not. This is obvious when you see who is in office today.

So, we need to start planning now so we are ready for the next election. I would rather put my efforts into getting the right people elected than in defending my freedoms one by one.

What do you think? Am I all wet?

-Mike-

bpeddicord · #2 03-20-2013, 11:10 AM

The problem with our nation right now is the large population who feel entitled to everything being free to them. Free medical care, free phones, free education without having to worry about student loans, free breakfast and lunch for their kids in schools, free benefits from social security without working for them. They refuse to work menial jobs when they get out of college. They expect to be paid high wages for usless degrees. They don't care about losing their freedoms as long as the government promises to take care of them for life. We now have forth and fifth generations of welfare recipients in our area and they know how the system works and benefit from it. These people will only vote for politicians who will aid them and their lifestyle. My wife and I worked two and three jobs to make ends meet for many years. We never accepted welfare or handouts from anyone. We helped our boys pay their way through college (both of them also worked and paid their share) without complaining about getting nothing for free. Now days this is not the norm. Many people absolutely refuse to work hard for their own rewards and expect the government to take care of them. They feel it is OK for the government to spy on them with drones and cameras for their own safety. It's OK for the government to tell them what they can eat or drink, or what they can drive, or where they can travel. Many feel it is OK for illegal immigrants to vote or receive free medical care and social security benefits. We need to change the direction this country is headed or we will all suffer. It is going to be hard because the majority of politicians are only interested in their own benefits and needs.

HankG · #3 03-20-2013, 11:41 AM

We don't control the world economically anymore. Since this is a weapons forum, an example... you can build a good handgun in Malaysia for half the price that you can build one here. All you have to do is buy the machinery, set it up in a building, and train the workers, many of which are just as intelligent as our workers. This is leading to an erosion of our liberties because the higher paying jobs are leaving to places like Malaysia and people will have to give up their freedoms for a government check to help subsidize their lower incomes.

I just bought a Polymer bodyguard from S&W. It would be interesting to know how much it costs to produce and sell a polymer weapon vs a similar model made of stainless steel. It's always been about costs and market share but Globilization has put far more pressure on these factors. Now it's about giving up freedoms for government subsidies because lower paying jobs are all that's left in many cases!

Buffalohunter60 · #4 03-20-2013, 03:48 PM

We may very well have more anti gun people than we have pro gun folks..But we are a Republic....not a Democracy. The big difference is that the majority can not take away the rights of the minority. To Take away Article 2 of the Bill of rights would require an amendment to the Constitution. Any law that is passed is not a law if it violates the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Sheriffs and I am not sure about LEO's ...take an Oath to protect and Defend the Constitution and they are Duty bound not to enforce an Unconstitution law. Officers in the Military are also Duty bound not to comply with any order that Violates the Constitution. Artical 2 was written by James Madision to protect the People from a bad government and if it comes down to it, we may be the ones that have to defend our rights should corrupted politicions try to take our rights away. We have the ability to do that and hopefully never have to. There is no substitute for Freedom....and I have faith that there are enough patriots left in this country to stand up if the Government tries to overstep their bounds as they seem to be trying. A postive vote does not make a law Constitutional or legal and thats where we need to stand up and let them know that we will never accept our freedom being stepped on. I know I will do my part and I b elieve there are enough Freedom loving men left to insure that we never lose our Freedom. The Government needs to know that we will pay any price for our freedom and if they try to take it....they will also pay a very high price. If our Sheriffs and Police are on board to defend the Constitution....it will not come to that. Either we honor our oathsz that many of us took or we do not deserve our freedom. It takes Courage to defend Freedom and it has never been Free....ask any Vet that has served in Combat...they realize the price we pay. Many in LE also pay a price to enforce the laws and its their freedom that is at stake along with ours. Sheriffs are "elected" by the "People" and they serve the people in their district...their Oath is to the Constitution and if they are men of honor...they will do the right thing. Taking the guns of the American people would be suicide for many. There are millions of us that will not stand for having our Freedom "infringed" So help me God.

owenwd54 · #5 03-20-2013, 04:13 PM

Some keep getting reelected because no one runs against them. We should all look for some one to run against some of these gun grabbers and encourage any one to run against these gun grabbers . We must teach people to get involved in protecting our 2nd amendment and all of our rights.
Any time they take one right away it emboldens them to take something else away look at New York City they tried to ban large soft drinks and banned smoking and now they want to legalize pot and no one says any thing about it . We should never give up any of our rights with out at least a fuss. For to long we have sat on the sidelines until it is just about to late. WE should all be involved in what our poiltacins do .
We should all do all that we can to protect our 2nd amendment and all the other rights that we have.

revolver59 · #6 03-20-2013, 07:23 PM

I think in order to get our backbones strengthened a bit at this point is, to join a pro gun organization, so we can help them fight for us. We want them to be financially strong, each and every membership counts.Our Constitution is sacred to us as Americans.Our forefathers fought hard for us to have this freedom, a lot of them paid the ultimate price, by giving up their lives. We cannot let them down, by letting these self centered,
politicians take our rights away , without giving them a good fight. The best way to do this is by supporting who is fighting to support us.Our voices as individual citizens will not be heard.This is the only way we can stay united and make our voices heard.

God Bless America.

cololab · #7 03-20-2013, 07:56 PM

We are indeed a republic. However, when did you last hear anyone in the lame stream media or from the Democratic Party refer to our country as such? All we hear are opinion polls about this or that and references to our country being a democracy. Slow but certain propaganda to eventually convince those with no sense of history that whatever the majority wants is what all must accept.

Buffalohunter60 · #8 03-20-2013, 08:17 PM

We all need to belong to the NRA...I also joined Oathkeepers and we have state chapters. you do not have to be a Vet to join. They take positive action by contacting sheriffs, police and get them on board the Constitution...there is a lot we can do to insure we do not lose this battle for Freedom. State house Rallys to talk directly to Politicions and let them know that we exxpect them to keep their Oath...if they do not...we need to work to remove them from office and do not comply with any unconstitutional bill they pass. Its not a law if its unconstitutional and I think the second amendment is easy for all of us to understand, we do not need any interpatation by a federal judge to understand it. Its ment to protect us from a bad government...not for them to try to tell us what it means. "We the People" are the bottom line....we must not accept any infringement on Our Constitutional Rights. We also need to fight for NY and Colorado and make sure these folks do not lose their freedom...we need to give them our total support (what ever it takes) A day of reconing may come when those that have tried to take our Freedom...realize it was the wrong road to go down...I do not want to be in their shoes. We can defend our rights...it may take work on our part and a bit of courage....but many of us have the courage....Our Freedom is priceless...meaning we will pay any price to insure we do not lose it. If you cant do it for yourself...do it for your children. We have everything to lose if we do not act to stop this attack on our Second Amendment and stop it cold. Know who is with us and who is against us....we may need to get involved in politics...I hate the thought but Patriots need to get involved and now!

packrat2 · #9 03-20-2013, 08:24 PM

where was every one when Obama was put in for the 2nd. time.? now every gun person is at gun shows buying up all the ammo and ARs they can find. All we had to do was vote him out. my.02 cents

boat770 · #10 03-21-2013, 12:31 AM

Well said everyone. I posted this on another thread but perhaps it fits better here. Sad to say, but I didn't retain a whole lot of what was lectured in college back in the 70's, but one thing has stuck in my head after all these years was a comment by an economics prof who said the government in Texas would never have a chance of being led by anything other than the party that begins with the letter D. Not to be political, but now years later we see how wrong this fellow was. That said, it doesn't matter who is in office the debt goes up, spending increases, nothing gets cut (except our freedom and liberties) and the freebies still flow no matter state or federal. The most bothersome thing to me is $16.7 trillion in debt and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Folks that is alot of geetus and a man would have to pick up alot of empty cans to pay that off. Eventually somebody will want those debts paid and then what? The solution is going to be ugly and the can has been kicked down the road, through the pasture and off the cliff. Any way I look at it my kids and grandkids future is bleak in my opinion. This didn't happen in the last 5 years, or 15 years or 20 years. Where the heck has the outrage been for the last 30 years. Now even Texas is turning purple with people pouring in here by the thousands bringing their backward ideology with them. As long as the choice is a lesser of 2 evils, then good folks will continue to tune out. It's not politics, it's dollars and cents/sense. I hope I'm wrong on this one but I just don't have any confidence the good 'ol USA can pull it off and I'm to dang old to learn any foreign language. God bless us all. Over and out.

Buffalohunter60 · #11 03-21-2013, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packrat2

where was every one when Obama was put in for the 2nd. time.? now every gun person is at gun shows buying up all the ammo and ARs they can find. All we had to do was vote him out. my.02 cents

I did not vote for him because I feared he would do what he is doing now. The scary thing is I am afraid we have more anti-gun people than we have pro-gun people that think they are trading "safety" for Liberty and aparently have not studied much history. Votes alone may not do the job. I sound like a broken record but we are a Republic...not a Democracy. the difference being...the majority can not vote away our God Given Right to Freedom.....but when it comes down to it....if people do not honor their Oaths....it may be up to us "We the people" that will honor the Oath many of us took in the Service that may have to hold the line. They can not take our freedom unless we become sheep and just give it to them. Sheriffs took an Oath, police took and oath to honor the Constitution. I just hope there are enough honest men that have the Courage and Integrity to honor that Oath if the time ever comes. Freedom has always been paid for by the Few.....for the many. Sad part is....men with Courage will fight for the rights of all of us...including the Gun Grabbers that do not realize the road they are starting down....The government only wants to disarm the people out of fear.....if we are unarmed...they are free to do what ever they decide to do. Armed, we are in a position to defend ourselves....if we ever lose that...we will be but sheep. I hope people read about Pol Pot and Cambodia and Rewanda, Sierra Leon, and the list goes on...to see what we could easily become...and they will wish they had stood up while they still could. I will never surrender my Firearms or my Freedom and I will never hide behind a screen name in cyber space. I have written the Sheriff of Carroll Country and am asking his position on the Constitution and what will he do if told to take our Arms...so far...no answer back. I posed the same question to the head of the State Police and am awaiting an answer. I am putting the same questions to every one of my representatives...one of them refuses to give me an answer (meaning he is anti-gun) But one senator really gets it and understands "NOT TO BE INFRINGED". Next letter is to the Govenor and I ask them point blank for their position on Semi-Automatic AR-15's, high capacity magazines, gun registration...if they can not answer...they should pack up and get out of the office .....because apparently...they do not stand for anything and are waiting to see which way the wind blows. I have more faith in the Veterans that have served this country...and many will stand up when the time comes. We have no one to blame but ourselves for this situtation.....we can fix it...but it takes the courage to ask the questions...see if they believe in the Oath they took and ask them point blank to their face. Someone needs to have the Courage and Integrity to stand up when our Constitution is trampled...and we all need to look in the mirror and see who is going to stand up and be counted...no one is going to do this for us....we need to have the Courage to do it ourself. Question Authority and question their integrity if they can not live up to the Oath they took. We need to step up to the plate. This is not the last attack we are goi g to see by the people that think they are trading liberty for safety...sorry folks...that does not work. Never trade Freedom for Slavery.

Travis15R · #12 03-21-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packrat2

where was every one when Obama was put in for the 2nd. time.? now every gun person is at gun shows buying up all the ammo and ARs they can find. All we had to do was vote him out. my.02 cents

The city's hold most of the population in each state thus the state turns red/blue depending on how they vote. Check out a map of the united states that shows how the country voted by county. The color of the map changes drastically. Most of the major city's are anti gun and want to see the 2A changed, NY, Chicago, SF, exc exc.. That is where their base is and they keep them happy and they keep getting voted in either on a state or federal level.

Speer4 · #13 03-21-2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalohunter60

We may very well have more anti gun people than we have pro gun folks..But we are a Republic....not a Democracy. The big difference is that the majority can not take away the rights of the minority. To Take away Article 2 of the Bill of rights would require an amendment to the Constitution. Any law that is passed is not a law if it violates the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. .

That is exactly the problem. Whether laws are Constitutional or not, they are being passed and enforced. I hope to God we never reach the point where we have an armed response within our own borders. That's why I am hoping we can channel this energy into putting people in office that will uphold their oaths.

The other side has a lot of advantages. For example: They control most of the media. As someone else pointed out, a lot of the people who are supporting the current politicians are those that do not work, so they have all day to protest, intimidate people at polling places, cash their government checks, etc. We will never get those votes and it would be a waste of time to try. I read that over 40% of Americans receive government assistance. That is a big group of people that are dependent on electing politicians that will keep their checks coming; and of course, the government cannot give anyone money that they do not first take from someone else.

We have to find those people who want freedom but do not vote and those that don't have a strong opinion, but are swayed by the media. We have to get that other 60% to stand up and be counted.

Have you noticed all the news stories since the announcement about the assault weapons ban being pulled from the pending legislation? Suddenly there are reports of people spotted with "long guns" on college campuses. Nobody is found, but the college is placed on lock down and it makes lots of news. Who do you supposed is calling in these reports????

I have no doubt that the gun control supporters would call in false reports. By doing this, they get the students rallying for gun control because someone is scaring the $%@# out of them. You get their parents demanding safety for their students. You get grand parents worried about their grandchildren, etc. This is a pretty effective tactic and I think we will hear more of these incidents where they do not find the person with the gun.

It would be great to expose some of those tactics if you could catch them. Even if you did, though, I am not sure the media would report it.

Speer4 · #14 03-24-2013, 04:52 PM

This is an outstanding, short speech by a former Secret Service agent that says what I was trying to say here better than I ever could have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=AdhXSj-DL1A

-Mike-