Colorado Magazine Bill Question

[MLD]

Hi, new member here, I have a question about the new legislation in Colorado concerning magazine capacity. I understand that you can legally posess a magazine over 15 round capacity after the bill goes into effect provided you owned it before July 1st, does this mean you can also still use it? The law as I read it isn't clear. Anyone? Thanks!

[Climber]

MLD....Good question. I will try to answer. It is my understanding that the mags possessed prior to the ban going into effect will still be "legal" to possess and use after the ban becomes law. Some learned sources have said that any mag that is "readily convertable" to hold more than 15 rounds will become illegal to possess and use after the law takes effect. If that is true, most mags will be banned in Colorado. Our pathetic Gov. Hickenbloomberg is now working with lawmakers to better "define" what the law really means.

All Colorado sheriffs have signed a position paper stating that they do not agree with this infringement on the 2ndA and they went on to say that the law is unenforceable because it is impossible to determine when the offender came into possession of the magazine. After the ban becomes law and should one need to aquire a 20-30 round magazine for one's AR, Cheyenne, Wyoming is just up the road and mags will be had there. It will just be "illegal" to bring them back into Colorado. As we all know, there are no birth dates stamped on the mags.

A sidebar to this.....So called "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" have been banned within the City and County of Denver since 1993. I personally know someone that had his AR-15 confiscated by the Denver police. His "crime" was possession and he never got his gun back. I for one believe that within Denver this new mag ban will probably be enforced and I hope that I am wrong about that.

For more info on what is going on in Colorado go here... Home - Colorado's No-Compromise Gun Rights Organization - Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and click on billwatch. Look at the list of good laws that never got out of committee due to both state house and state senate having a democrat majority. Topping it off with the likes of the the gutless Hickenlooper, we have a problem. As I write this, the progressives at the state capitol in downtown Denver have gone off in an orgasmic feeding frenzy on the Constitution. Lawsuits are now being filed or soon will be. Recall petitions are being put together but who knows where it will end.

As for me, I know where I stand and where I am going to stand on any unconstitutional 2ndA issue....Molon Labe....come and take them.

Climber
Castle Rock, Co.

[MLD]

Thanks for the answer Climber. The fact that it bans any magazine that can be converted to increase capacity, which basically covers any magazine, clearly defies the second amendment and should be challenged as being unconstitutional. Hopefully there will be a challenge to this law.

A second question, if I go to target practice in national grassland or forest areas does the state law apply?

[Climber]

MLD....No one probably knows the answer to that one,yet. Our pathetic governor and his ilk are trying to figure out how to implement the law. Does that sound familiar? "We have to pass the bill so we can see what is in it." Shades of Pelosi there. However, our sheriffs have vowed to ignore and not inforce the mag ban.

As far as shooting out on the national grasslands and in the national forests go, it should be business as usual. By that I mean good common sense applies here. I have spent many a golden hour out in the Pike national forest with some form of Liberty teeth in hand. Every now and then I will come in contact with a LEO from Jefferson, Douglas or some other county within the area. I have come in contact with some USFS LEOs and USFS personel and all of them say the same thing.... have fun, be safe and clean up after yourself. Fair enough, I say. I know people that will go out on the Pawnee national grasslands with their .50 BMG cal. rifles for some long range work as in 1000-1500 yards and the results are the same. The rules that are in place for shooting in these areas are few but are enforced by the USFS and local sheriffs and those rules are easy to comply with. Again, common sense gun safety here.

I do envision off in the future our present Obama administration handing down some edict by way of executive order that would outlaw such activities on "federal lands". Our sheriffs have vowed not to comply but what are the feds going to do? It could get more than interesting out there some day when Joe and Susie Sixpack have his AK and her AR with those horrible 30 round magazines, blazing away at some plastic milk jugs within a national forest. I can see some that carry a federal badge and a federal gun attempting to enforce unconstitutional laws. After all, they would only be doing their job and protecting their pensions that they hope to get someday......Constitution be damned.

The U.S. House of Representatives could fix most of the problem if and when their cry-baby Speaker should find his cojones and defund every gun and badge federal agency that is not authorized by the Constitution. I am certain that James Madison is turning flips in his grave and has been for a while over the events of late.

This conversation has put me in the mood to launch some lead. My beloved and I are headed down to the local indoor range to visit some likeminded people and burn up some ammo and more than likely there will be some soon to banned magazines in use. This is the kind of range and gun shop where you will not find one firearm "suitable for sporting use" for sale. Everything here is 2ndA and CCW/self defense oriented. This is the kind of place and activity that makes the progressive/statist types break out in itchy, burning sensations in their secret little places. So, the pleasure is mine to be the cause of it.

Molon Labe....Come and Take Them

Climber
Castle Rock, Co.

[douk]

I was born in Edgewater Colorado, in the house my father built. Sadly this is no longer my fathers country, and with western civilization declining faster than I ever imagined, it feels like this is no longer my country as well. I used to say, "That's what's great about America, if you don't like the laws where you live, you can move to another city or state". The trouble is.......we are running out of better places to move to. It's not just the gun control, it's a lot of progressive policies like socialism, sustainability, tolerance, environmentalism, political correctness, etc. etc. chipping away at our western lifestyle.
The greatest self governing experiment to ever come down the pike, and misguided ideologues want to fundamentally change it.

Rhetorical question:
Will there always be arrogant intellectuals who must reinvent the wheel?

[Jeffersonwasright]

This is all the result of a terrible mistake made by the founding fathers. No bills passed by local yahoos at the state or local level should ever be allowed to have the force of law without first passing a federal constitutionality test. The U.S. would be a much different country if the federal-state relationship was based on this foundation. It does no good to be a country under "rule of law" if the laws themselves are immoral and unconstitutional.

[hayesxb]

I read an article that said the Sheriffs were going to bring lawsuit against the state for these laws. They say it violates the 2nd and 14th amendments. The Sheriffs also said they would help anyone who was hassled by federal LE. The Sheriffs are the top ranking law enforcement in the state, they even outrank federal.

[Jeffersonwasright]

Too bad you can't hold the people who did this financially responsible for the damage they've done. At the very least, no politican who sponsors or votes for a law that violates the Constitution should be allowed to remain in office.

[DJINCO]

Originally Posted by douk

I was born in Edgewater Colorado, in the house my father built.

Interesting. My Dad was born in Edgewater also. 1560 Benton. In 1927. His Dad (my Grandfather) walked from there to the Gates Rubber plant to work.

Sadly, my Dad is 86 and has dementia so his memory is going. Half of what he tells you is made up and he can't remember the other half.

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

What gets me is the realization that these small groups of people can mess with millions without the accountability of a popular vote on critical issues.

Having 12-18 biased people decide the fate of our rights, freedoms and quality of life is absurd.

Good to see Obama, Cuomo and Bloomberg's ratings drop like a rock.

Bloomberg is the biggest threat on the horizon. He is out to prove that he can either buy or bully his way anytime he wants.

[Buffalohunter60]

What some seem to forget is that we are a Republic...not a Democracy. A majority can not take your rights in a Republic...they can in a Democracy...Big difference (in Our favor. ) They can be held accountable and we need to hold them accountable. If they violate the Constitution or promote bills that are unconstitutional and violate theiur Oathj...they can be charged and proscuted. I believe the States Attorney General could look into that.

[douk]

Originally Posted by DJINCO

Interesting. My Dad was born in Edgewater also. 1560 Benton. In 1927. His Dad (my Grandfather) walked from there to the Gates Rubber plant to work.

Sadly, my Dad is 86 and has dementia so his memory is going. Half of what he tells you is made up and he can't remember the other half.

Sorry to hear about your Dad......hang in there.

DJINCO, let me clarify..........2467 Marshall St, was my parents home that they paid someone to build for them, but I have no doubt my father kept a close eye on the work.
He worked for US Steel Corp.....passed away in `84. I couldn't wait to be born so Dad took Mom back to the house and I popped out there, way back in 1956.
Anyway to keep this thread on topic: It is nothing less than despicable that a governor would knowingly sign a faulty bill, let alone have corrupt legislators knowingly send a faulty bill to him. Like most good Liberals, they just do it and worry about the unforeseen consequences later. Of course most of the time they will have already moved on, so they don't have to deal with any unpleasant consequences.
For those who still don't fully get it.........there is a power grab underway, and it is succeeding. We are on our way to a one party system (The Democratic Party) and if there was a time to stop them, we missed it with the last election. Thirty years of liberalism in our schools, universities, unions and politics have brought us the Age of Obama, which will be followed by the Age of Hillary. When they regain a majority in the congress, the fundamental changes they seek will be made law, and given enough Democratic governors they will do what they want with the constitution, starting with repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
Is it too late to stop?
I think so........but I'm only calling it like I see it......I could say wake up but why bother..........
maybe it's all a dream anyway.......row row row your boat.


DHS stockpiles ammo
Blog: Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?

DHS Ammunition Stockpile: Over A Dozen Congressmen Demanding Investigation


I'm looking for the source, but also read that DHS is doubling the markmanship range time required by employees.

Also a related story
Declaring economic war on Colorado - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

[El Bombardero]

The simple answer is yes. The only thing this law bans is the transfer of these magazines after July 1st.

Incidentally, I and several other people are planning a demonstration on July 1st at the capitol where we will intentionally and publicly transfer these newly banned magazines, thereby violating the law. We need as many people as possible to come join us. If you are serious about your gun rights and are in Colorado, you need to come if at all possible.

[douk]

I would like to join your sales and transfer demonstration but I can't step that far into the spotlight just yet. I would however make the effort to drive down Lincoln and toot my horn in support (which is against the law too). That's if I can afford a gallon of gas.
Just post a reminder here on the forum with time of day.

[El Bombardero]

Originally Posted by douk

I would like to join your sales and transfer demonstration but I can't step that far into the spotlight just yet.

Respectfully, why not?

[douk]

El Bomb.

“who wishes to fight must first count the cost”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I should read that book someday.......I suggest we all read up to prepare for this epic challenge.

[El Bombardero]

Originally Posted by douk

El Bomb.

“who wishes to fight must first count the cost”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I should read that book someday.......I suggest we all read up to prepare for this epic challenge.

I'm not trying to be rude at all here, but this is the kind or response I've been getting from a lot of people about this. They aren't prepared to take the heat.

I don't understand where all this "from my cold dead hands" talk comes from when people aren't even willing to risk a misdemeanor charge when the time comes.

Again, I'm not talking only to you, I'm just frustrated that more people aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is to defend our natural rights.

[douk]

Originally Posted by El Bombardero

I'm not trying to be rude at all here, but this is the kind or response I've been getting from a lot of people about this. They aren't prepared to take the heat.

I don't understand where all this "from my cold dead hands" talk comes from when people aren't even willing to risk a misdemeanor charge when the time comes.

Again, I'm not talking only to you, I'm just frustrated that more people aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is to defend our natural rights.

I am trying to support your efforts........don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
There are reasons for everything. And a time and a place.
If your time and place is July 1st on the steps of the Capitol....great.
Mine is not, but that does not mean I will do less in this epic challenge we face. We are up against fanatics who would like nothing more than to see us divided and squabbling among ourselves. But now this thread is off topic so.............let me say there is no way to know until it happens.

[QUOTE=douk;137109805]

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Mahatma Gandhi

Gandhi was anti gun control!
I have not confirmed that quote......but if true then how cool is that?

[vikgorr]

Originally Posted by El Bombardero

I'm not trying to be rude at all here, but this is the kind or response I've been getting from a lot of people about this. They aren't prepared to take the heat.

I don't understand where all this "from my cold dead hands" talk comes from when people aren't even willing to risk a misdemeanor charge when the time comes.

Again, I'm not talking only to you, I'm just frustrated that more people aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is to defend our natural rights.

As much as I'm skeptical about "cold dead hands", there might be a good reason for the statement. For example, I would not participate in this action because I've had a misdemeanor glued to me in 1988, and in 1996 this misdemeanor made possession by me of a single cartridge (and/or mag of any capacity) a felony. Retroactive implementation of law is immeasurably more cynical violation of Constitution than restricting capacity to 15 rounds, but I didn't see anybody seriously fight it. By now, most of the righteous sheep considers it right. Oh, Orwell really seen the future.
Misdemeanor you can get by doing nothing. Here you are going to traffic firearms, sell without background check, sell to people unauthorized to own, resist arrest, commit civil disobedience, incite resistance to democratically elected government and so on. But don't you worry, it all will be pleaded down to a misdemeanor. Which will make a felon out of you next time you find yourself in possession of a firearm, or a mag, or a cartridge, or the means to produce a cartridge... That might be the reason some of us are hesitant.
(I think the reason of absence of reloading supplies is due to coming background check for purchase of ammo.)

[Buffalohunter60]

This post has been removed......

[El Bombardero]

Originally Posted by vikgorr

Misdemeanor you can get by doing nothing. Here you are going to traffic firearms, sell without background check, sell to people unauthorized to own, resist arrest, commit civil disobedience, incite resistance to democratically elected government and so on.

All we are doing is a magazine swap. It's a symbolic action. Nobody is planning on resisting arrest or incite resistance. Or selling guns for that matter.

I have heard mountains of reasons (read: excuses) why people can't or won't commit to this. I'm sure glad our founding fathers weren't afraid of a misdemeanor charge when history called on them to take a stand.

To me this is why the sentiments of "molon labe", "don't tread on me", "we came unarmed...this time", "come and take it", "the second amendment protects all the rest", etc., are all starting to ring very hollow. Guns are being confiscated door to door in California, magazines and semi auto rifles are being outlawed in NY, and now in Western gun-loving Colorado we are starting to see the rights eroded. This doesn't all come in some crystal clear moment when people can have the luxury of a black and white decision to make. This stuff happens over time, slowly, and by the time you think you may be ready to take a stand, it's already too late.

The time is now.

[Buffalohunter60]

Originally Posted by El Bombardero

All we are doing is a magazine swap. It's a symbolic action. Nobody is planning on resisting arrest or incite resistance. Or selling guns for that matter.

I have heard mountains of reasons (read: excuses) why people can't or won't commit to this. I'm sure glad our founding fathers weren't afraid of a misdemeanor charge when history called on them to take a stand.

To me this is why the sentiments of "molon labe", "don't tread on me", "we came unarmed...this time", "come and take it", "the second amendment protects all the rest", etc., are all starting to ring very hollow. Guns are being confiscated door to door in California, magazines and semi auto rifles are being outlawed in NY, and now in Western gun-loving Colorado we are starting to see the rights eroded. This doesn't all come in some crystal clear moment when people can have the luxury of a black and white decision to make. This stuff happens over time, slowly, and by the time you think you may be ready to take a stand, it's already too late.

The time is now.

Your right...and its time for a challange (court this time) Its also time to team up with the sheriffs that support and defend the constitution.....they may need us to back them up...many are on your side. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The legal challanges are coming...but I would love to see these elected officals proscuted for dishonoring their Oath of office. What part of "Not to be In fringed" do they not understand? It needs to be made clear to them.

[douk]

Originally Posted by MLD

Hi, new member here, I have a question about the new legislation in Colorado concerning magazine capacity. I understand that you can legally posess a magazine over 15 round capacity after the bill goes into effect provided you owned it before July 1st, does this mean you can also still use it? The law as I read it isn't clear. Anyone? Thanks!

Hi MLD, if your still checking in.

The bill is so poorly written it is impossible to comply with, and enforce. Either the authors wanted it that way, so no one could pick up most magazines in the formally great state of Colorado, without breaking the law, or they were careless to the point of being negligent. This bill undoubtedly will be challenged in the courts.
This equates to a frivolous bill, and should be repealed or overturned, and the authors, sponsors, and signers should be held accountable for doing a poor job.
It looks like infringement of the 2nd Amendment to me, but alas I am not a constitutional scholar, and I bet the authors, sponsors, and signers are not either. If they are, then shame on them.

[MLD]

Originally Posted by douk

Hi MLD, if your still checking in.

The bill is so poorly written it is impossible to comply with, and enforce. Either the authors wanted it that way, so no one could pick up most magazines in the formally great state of Colorado, without breaking the law, or they were careless to the point of being negligent. This bill undoubtedly will be challenged in the courts.
This equates to a frivolous bill, and should be repealed or overturned, and the authors, sponsors, and signers should be held accountable for doing a poor job.
It looks like infringement of the 2nd Amendment to me, but alas I am not a constitutional scholar, and I bet the authors, sponsors, and signers are not either. If they are, then shame on them.

And these are the people making our laws, God help us.

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

The absurdness of turning normal citizens into felons with the stroke of a party agenda pen is exactly what needs to go on trial. The more it contrasts with reason, the better. Saw an article last night on the CO boycott that was a bright spot... except that it dissappeared as soon as all kinds of people started commenting that they were cancelling hunting, family vacation and ski trips to CO as a result of the anti american legislation....(probably the opposite of the intent!) Keep that word spreading as well, its already getting media attention...

[Buffalohunter60]

We each have the right to defend our Constitutional rights if anyone violates them. Sooner or later someone is going to try to stomp on the rights of a man that understands his constitutional rights and there is going to be blood shed. Then the legal battle to the supreme court. I urge you all to view the u-tube of Carl Miller...this man understands the Constitution better than most. I posted a link to his u-tube site. Please take the time to listen to him. We are the defenders of our constitutional rights and we will have to have the same courage that many soldiers face in battle if the time comes. I am not going to surrender my constitutional rights to anyone....and if one day I die defending those rights...so be it...I will die sooner or later anyway...I would rather die a free man than be the subject of any government. The Oath does not mean the same to all people...some recite it and know they will collect a good retirement after one term as an elected rep of the people...some mean what they say. In the end...its all up to us...who we are, what we stand for, and what we are willing to accept for infringement...if any. Its all up to us in the end. You have the right to defend your constitutional rights and to use deadly force against anyone that tries to take them from you. Does not mean you will win the battle....but if enough rally to the cause...we will preserve the rights of all Americans and maybe the future representatives will take note. I will always hope for a peaceful outcome to defending our rights....but it may take standing up for our rights to preserve them. Work hard to take the peaceful road, that is what all of us want to see....but be willing to pay the price of freedom if its placed on the auction block. Freedom is priceless and I will pay any price to insure that the next generation has the freedom I have....or die trying if thats what it takes. Never give up your freedom, your Constitution or your God Given rights.

[El Bombardero]

Please take the time to give this video a thumbs down, and share it with your friends.

Gun Legislation Message - YouTube

[CA Escapee]

Originally Posted by Jeffersonwasright

Too bad you can't hold the people who did this financially responsible for the damage they've done. At the very least, no politican who sponsors or votes for a law that violates the Constitution should be allowed to remain in office.

Years ago, when I lived in California, it became obvious to me that the legislators there passed laws without regard as to whether they would be overturned in the courts. And why should they?

Here's the scenario they live in. They "work" all year passing bills that suit their agenda. (Meanwhile, the state is circling the drain with budgetary problems.) We the taxpayers paid their salary for the entire year. They come up with some of the most hair-brained laws and we the taxpayers have to pay attorney's to file a lawsuit in court to have it overturned. Who defends them in court, the state attorney general who's salary is paid by, you guessed it, the taxpayers.

Legislators don't have to spend a cent to defend what they do. I think what states need is a law that if a legislator presents a bill that is passed into law, then overturned by the courts, the legislator should have to personally reimburse the taxpayers. Essentially, looser pays.

They should have to pay back that part of their salary while they crafted the bogus bill. They should have to pay the taxpayers' attorney's fees, and they should have to pay back the cost for the attorney general to defend their bogus law in court.

And, if you pass "x" number of laws that get overturned in court, you're out of there with a failing grade. Any legislator that passes bad laws that don't pass judical review obviously isn't cut out for the job and is there just wasting the taxpayers money.

Just venting.

Bill

[douk]

Originally Posted by El Bombardero

Please take the time to give this video a thumbs down, and share it with your friends.

Gun Legislation Message - YouTube

This is a good way to show your support for the vast number of Colorado residents who do not approve of what has been done.
Especially today as the Campaigner in Chief is in Colorado strictly to promote gun control.

[douk]

A follow up check on this video reveals how corrupted big government can get.
Gun Legislation Message - YouTube
After overwhelmingly negative comments about the video, and the content of the video, the Governor has censored the comments. All comments have been removed, and no comments will be allowed, but guess what? The video is still there. To me that reeks of self serving political propaganda. With clear evidence of just how the video and the legislation were becoming an obvious embarrassment, what do they do. You would think they might want to remove it.......heck no, just the opposition to it.
If you can please share the video with all you know, and remind them to thumbs down, (if they don't like it) it would be great.
And thanks to EL B for informing us of this propaganda against the 2nd Amendment.

[El Bombardero]

Comments are gone, but ratings are still there. Keep spreading the word to get this video the worst rating possible.

And thanks Douk for keeping an eye on it.

[hayesxb]

I voted it with a thumbs down. There are only 26 likes...