Revolvers Sold in Kalifornia

[Rhetorician]

Hello all:

Trying to do some reading on the new micro imprinting and law in California. Why are revolvers exempt?

Can someone in the know explain this to me?

I will greatly appreciate it.

[KLYDE]

I can't explain it to you. I also doubt the people who made the law could explain it either. I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the ejected case. If that makes any sense.

[Fishinfool]

Originally Posted by KLYDE

I can't explain it to you. I also doubt the people who made the law could explain it either. I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the ejected case. If that makes any sense.

I'd like to think they put even that much thought into it, but I doubt it. Probably because "automatics are evil", and it is easier to sell the micro stamping idea with them first. Revolvers next......

Larry

[Comrad]

So let's see, micro printing on the brass, what happens after it's been reloaded a couple times?

[KLYDE]

Originally Posted by Comrad

So let's see, micro printing on the brass, what happens after it's been reloaded a couple times?

I haven't read the law but I believe the micro printing will be on the firing pin. It is all bunk. Just a back door gun control measure. The powers know darn right well that the gun makers will say goodbye rather than comply with the costly requirements. Happened here in MA in the early 2000's.

[Stu1205]

Originally Posted by Rhetorician

Hello all:

Trying to do some reading on the new micro imprinting and law in California. Why are revolvers exempt?

Can someone in the know explain this to me?

I will greatly appreciate it.

Perhaps because revolvers usually do not leave spent brass at a crime.

JMHO

Stu

[BaldEagle1313]

You are trying to apply logic to Kalifornia and guns. Doesn't work that way.

[PA Guns & Ammo]

If you have one minute and a piece of sandpaper, you can eliminate this "technology" they call micro stamping.

James

[AwfAxis]

It's the ejected brass concept. Most drive-by's and gang shoots are quick, with brass everywhere. No one hangs around to pick up after themselves.

Revolver shooters rarely reload, hence, no brass.

This law was supposedly pushed by LEO's and DA's wanting some way to link a gun to a crime scene.

[gregintenn]

Couldn't a fellow just order a new firing pin and swap them? This is assuming he didn't want to take the time to stone off the head of the original.

One doesn't need to be particularly bright in order to be a politician.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Couldn't a fellow just order a new firing pin and swap them? This is assuming he didn't want to take the time to stone off the head of the original.

...

You're thinking like a "gun guy". Most BG's aren't gunsmiths and some don't even own their guns. They toss them after a doing or sell them to the next guy who needs one. As I understand it, in some neighborhoods, a gun may be kept in a centrally located place with easy access and is taken and returned as needed - not unlike a library book.

The ultimate in "community action".

[robertrwalsh]

This law has nothing to do with public safety or criminal investigation. It is all about putting more roadblocks in the way of honest, law abiding gun owners and limiting the guns they can buy by increasing their expense. the technology actually works sort-of well with high pressure cartridges like .40, and not so good with lower pressure cartridges like .45 acp. It also creates a huge, expensive program to track the miscrostamp numbers and replacement parts.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

My Dad taught me how to work with my hands.

Especially with tools.

[wittmeba]

Another thread here:

26 Guns made ILLEGAL to sell in CA over the weekend

[islamoradamark]

the reason revolvers are exempt in cali is they dont know what one is

[wittmeba]

Originally Posted by Comrad

So let's see, micro printing on the brass, what happens after it's been reloaded a couple times?

..or what happens if you reload a couple times and shoot the round in a couple different automatic guns?

[WuzzFuzz]

I think I'm going to invent a 17 shot automatic, "BLACK POWDER and CAP and BALL type, that can be made by using one of those new type printers.?????

Would there be any interest, before I get started staying up late at night inventing?


WuzzFuzz

[Fishslayer]

Originally Posted by WuzzFuzz

I think I'm going to invent a 17 shot automatic, "BLACK POWDER and CAP and BALL type, that can be made by using one of those new type printers.?????

Would there be any interest, before I get started staying up late at night inventing?


WuzzFuzz

Ya know, a cap & ball revolver might be the perfect weapon for a crime. No brass left behind and after a couple of rounds you could make your escape behind the cover of smoke!

Originally Posted by islamoradamark

the reason revolvers are exempt in cali is they dont know what one is

I tried to Google some witty remark to make re Florida. Crashed my browser...

[USBP SW]

Of course if you ever wanted to get rid of someone, you could go to the range and gather up a handful of microstampted empties and voila, the crime just became more complicated to solve.

[bwiese]

Folks,

'Microstamping' is statutorily _not_ applicable to revolvers.

Microstamping passed in CA in 2007, but not until recently was it regarded as "technology that exists,
with no encumbering intellectual property" and thus now is subject to required implementation for new
handguns being Rostered.

'Microstamping' is only required for new semiauto pistols being Rostered for sale in CA, and not for guns
already approved/Rostered for sale. Already-Rostered handgun models, unchanged, can remain Rostered
if renewal fees are periodically paid.

[The Roster does not apply to dimensionally-compliant single-shot pistols nor single-action revolvers. It
also does not apply to CA FFL-mediated private party handgun transfers btwn CA residents, nor consignment
sales at CA FFLs, nor for various lineal intrafamily transfers & inheritance/bequest matters.]

However, because CA DOJ Firearms Bureau treats even the most trivial midstream production engineering changes to a Rostered handgun - even if those changes actually aid quality/consistency
or enhance safety - as substantive [i.e., outside of sights & grips], such changes make the gun
regardable as a 'new gun' requiring retesting, new fees paid, and re-Rostering as new model.
And such 'new guns' being Rostered require microstamping - which really isn't implementable
despite DOJ's assertion.

CA DOJ has gone so far to even say trivial site changes for parts supply - even if parts made with identical
materials, dimensions, tolerances and on the same machinery - makes a given gun model fall off the Roster.

No large gun mfgr can really _not_ do such small midstream engineering changes - tooling changes, material
supplies change, improvements are identified & implemented, etc. The DOJ is essentially demanding design
and production are 'frozen in time' - even if that were to results in a substandard or reduced safety product,
and even though 'continuous improvement' is now the mantra of every quality manufacturing process worldwide.
[Have you seen the cars in Cuba and - until fairly recently - in India?]

So contrary to news saying S&W and Ruger "are abandoning the CA market", all they did was normal workflow
and the DOJ, and antigun AG Kamala Harris [distinctly different behavior vs former AG Brown] turned the screws
up.

S&W managed to get modern production changes in the Rostered 'M&P Shield' line and the Sigma-derived SWVEs before new microstamping regulatory implementation occurred. S&W has said these will remain unchanged
in CA for the forseeable future so at least some S&W autos will be available here. And even if substantive changes
occur in the revolver line, these are at least re-Rosterable without microstamping.

I will note The Calguns Foundation is litigating in Federal Court against the full CA handgun Roster regime.


-Bill Wiese
Calguns Foundation

[poordevil]

So you buy a micro stamped gun, planning to use it in a crime in the future. Say five years from now (gotta plan ahead). After one year you report it stolen. Then you do the dirty deed and leave it lay.

As others have said and we all know, it is not and never is about crime, but preventing you from having a gun. Plane and simple.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by srv1

If you have one minute and a piece of sandpaper, you can eliminate this "technology" they call micro stamping.

James

You can also file the S/N off your gun, but we know where that can lead.

[PPCSHOOTER]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Couldn't a fellow just order a new firing pin and swap them? This is assuming he didn't want to take the time to stone off the head of the original.

One doesn't need to be particularly bright in order to be a politician.

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW WHICH PROHIBITS THE CHANGING OF PARTS ON A PISTOL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CHANGING THE BALLISTIC FINGER PRINT.

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by PPCSHOOTER

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW WHICH PROHIBITS THE CHANGING OF PARTS ON A PISTOL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CHANGING THE BALLISTIC FINGER PRINT.

Please quote me Federal law or regulation (18 USC xxxx, or 27 CFR xxxx)
I don't think you can. Hell, I don't think there's a state law either.

Committing a crime with a gun then drilling out the barrel? Sure,
that's destroying evidence after the fact but that's not a gun-specific
crime.

BTW, get it right: microstamping is not really 'ballistic identification';
marks are on the fired case, not the bullet. 'Ballistic' would really
imply these ID markings were on the bullet.



-Bill Wiese

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by Stu1205

Perhaps because revolvers usually do not leave spent brass at a crime.

JMHO

Stu

Then they ought to make revolvers illegal. There ought to be a law that if you use a gun in a crime you have to leave spent shell casings so they can solve the crime within the allotted hour.

[cmj8591]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Then they ought to make revolvers illegal..

Why? Everyone knows that they are obsolete.

[LVSteve]

The witch hunt on rifles with bayonets and bayonet lugs has always made me smile. Ever tried a drive-by bayonetting from a slammed Caprice?

[robertrwalsh]

The REAL reason for the microstamping law is the same for the "safe gun list" in California. It is to make firearms less accessible and more expensive for honest, law abiding people. It really is that simple. There is a lot of camouflage attached to it, but that is the bottom line.

[Road Rat]

Originally Posted by Rhetorician

Hello all:

Trying to do some reading on the new micro imprinting and law in California. Why are revolvers exempt?

Can someone in the know explain this to me?

I will greatly appreciate it.

I'm coming late to this party; but..........

To the OP - Did you stop and THINK about this issue??

[ar15newbie57]

The next Kalifornia gun law will be that you cannot own a firearm and matching ammunition at the same time.

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by PPCSHOOTER

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW WHICH PROHIBITS THE CHANGING OF PARTS ON A PISTOL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CHANGING THE BALLISTIC FINGER PRINT.

What if a guy's firing pine broke and he replaced it?

Lock me up if that's illegal.

I don't see the difference, and intent is hard to prove in a courtroom.

[Krell1]

I would think that micro stamping (given its name) would be very fine. To me, that would lend it wearing out over time (or intentional mild abrasives) leaving virtually no damage to the firearm. I don't live in Kalifornia (glad about that) and I would never advocate getting around the regulations.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by PPCSHOOTER

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW WHICH PROHIBITS THE CHANGING OF PARTS ON A PISTOL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CHANGING THE BALLISTIC FINGER PRINT.

That would be a very ineffective law if it existed. I can think of a host of reasons to change a barrel. I changed the 8 3/8" barrel on my 629 for a 4" 45 barrel and reamed the cylinder to 45LC and cut it to take 45ACPs in moon clips because I am a 45 guy. I wanted a different length barrel or better barrel is all one would need to say. I think I may have changed the ballistic finger print at the same time. Ridiculous.

[wittmeba]

Based on what I have read about microstamping most of the concerns have been raised in support against the process - changing barrels, firing pins, contaminating a crime scene with other used empties, empties being moved from one location to another by vehicle tire treads, removal of ID by criminals, gunsmithing expenses if logs of gun changes have to be maintained and reported, etc. And if they stamp the casing what happens to reloads?

The reason for microstamping remains a question if it isn't just another means of tracking the purchase of a gun for the purpose of knowing who is buying guns.

The libs are still trying to treat every LAC and criminal alike - expecting to make the criminals become law abiding citizens - it's not going to happen.

NRA-ILA | Why Microstamping and Bullet Serializat

California police chiefs now question value of 'microstamping' - St. Louis gun rights | Examiner.com

[wittmeba]

Originally Posted by PPCSHOOTER

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW WHICH PROHIBITS THE CHANGING OF PARTS ON A PISTOL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CHANGING THE BALLISTIC FINGER PRINT.

I'm sure the criminals will abide by this law just like all the rest.

[therevjay]

Originally Posted by Comrad

So let's see, micro printing on the brass, what happens after it's been reloaded a couple times?

What makes you think reloading your own ammo will be legal in the future. Sounds like something only a "gun nut" would want to do.

[metalman60]

Hello Rhetorician-
Revolvers leave the brass in the gun. The law will be found to be unworkable.
Just wait.

Metalman60

[gwpercle]

Revolvers may be exempt now, but just wait....they wont be exempt for long.

[robertrwalsh]

Its really pretty simple. California legislators are mostly morons. They see semi-automatic weapons as evil when compared to revolvers. Plus revolvers are so "old" that nobody carries them any more, so nobody cares about them.

[vonn]

Biting my tongue to prevent myself from saying what I hope you all are thinking.

[Comrad]

What if someone could invent a revolver that ejected spent brass.....yeah they could call it a semi-auto revolver. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Put it on the shelf with the other good gun safety ideas.

[Nevada Ed]

I just talked to my brother last night on the phone and he told me that Calif. passed a law where..............

No 6" barrels are allowed in the state........ 4" or shorter only
for the S&W revolver that he wants to buy.

10 shot pistols.........
4" or less revolvers........

what's next........?
Only low base for shotguns ?

[Gunhacker]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

I just talked to my brother last night on the phone and he told me that Calif. passed a law where..............

No 6" barrels are allowed in the state........ 4" or shorter only
for the S&W revolver that he wants to buy.

10 shot pistols.........
4" or less revolvers........

what's next........?
Only low base for shotguns ?

What??? There is no minimum/maximum restriction on the barrel length for revolvers per se that can be sold here.

Without knowing what the specific model is that he was talking about, I think what he is possibly referring to is that only the 4" barrel version of the revolver model that he wants is listed on the DOJ roster of certified safe handguns, that determines what a dealer can sell in CA.

That is one of the highly illogical aspects of our handgun roster.

Even if a gun has the same model number, but available in different barrel lengths or even a different finish (Blued versus Nickel), each gun still has to be listed individually on the roster or it's no-go.

Here's a good example... all listed are M27-9's, if S&W decides to bring out a 5" barrel version, we can't buy it until S&W goes through the process of getting it tested by the CA DOJ and added to the roster (which is exactly what's going on now with the new M69 L-Frame .44 Magnum):

27-9 (Blue) SKU 150339 / Steel Revolver 4" .357 Magnum
27-9 (Blue) SKU 150341 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum
27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150340 / Steel Revolver 4" .357 Magnum
27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150342 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum

[cmj8591]

Originally Posted by Comrad

.yeah they could call it a semi-auto revolver. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Put it on the shelf with the other good gun safety ideas.

I wonder where this falls on the list?

[sac-gunslinger]

Originally Posted by islamoradamark

the reason revolvers are exempt in cali is they dont know what one is

I think this may be more truth than we realize. The urban anti-gunners get their firearms knowledge from watching TV news and crime shows, both of which always show a typical crime scene as littered with empty casings. Voila! We mark the casings, n'cest pas? I have seen only one crime show where the detective commented "no shell casings, must have used a revolver."

As a Kalifornia resident I own mostly revolvers and rifles that do not "look" evil. Not worried if I am not sufficiently prepared.

[AZretired]

Originally Posted by sac-gunslinger

I think this may be more truth than we realize. The urban anti-gunners get their firearms knowledge from watching TV news and crime shows, both of which always show a typical crime scene as littered with empty casings. Voila! We mark the casings, n'cest pas? I have seen only one crime show where the detective commented "no shell casings, must have used a revolver."

As a Kalifornia resident I own mostly revolvers and rifles that do not "look" evil. Not worried if I am not sufficiently prepared.

I remember seeing one like that, they had been in the crime scene maybe 5 minutes when they decided it must be a revolver. Wonder if they might change their mind when they find shell casings two days later. Never have seen a nice neat pile of casings at a crime scene. I also like the ones where they can establish the caliber just by looking at the wound!

[george minze]

So strange....Having lived in Ca a short time I am reminded that in the late 40' and 50's most immigrants to California were from the dust bowl of Missouri, Arkansas and Kansas, Nebraska etc...not exactly liberal bastions. How and why have they become so in debt, liberal and seem sometimes counter productive to the point of hurting their own products..Somehow they have almost ruined their truck farming, and now are working on driving out other big business. Who is going to pay the taxes if all the corporate biggies leave.....I don't think the illegals will bear the burnt of the constantly raising costs and taxes...Where did the people come from that believe there is some big brother in the sky to pay for their weirdness. It is such or was a beautiful state..

[elm_creek_smith]

Originally Posted by USBP SW

Of course if you ever wanted to get rid of someone, you could go to the range and gather up a handful of microstampted empties and voila, the crime just became more complicated to solve.

Especially if you used a revolver! 9mm and .40 brass scattered everywhere (wiped clean, of course), and .38 slugs in the target would make the "CSI" people on television crazy!

[Road Rat]

Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith

Especially if you used a revolver! 9mm and .40 brass scattered everywhere (wiped clean, of course), and .38 slugs in the target would make the "CSI" people on television crazy!

I don't know that the "CSI" television techs could tell the difference between a 9mm (.355) and a .38 (.357) bullet....

Be interesting to see!!!

[JohnSW]

Look on the bright side. "Anti-pistol laws" will encourage more people to discover The Joy Of Revolver.