My CCW proposal made it to D.C.

[JJEH]

Since a few month I'm working on a proposal that would allow your current permit to be recognized in all 50 states. A few weeks ago I finally sent the 4-page proposal off to Senator Tom Coburn M.D. (R-Okla.). Today I got a call from his office. His assistant caught me totally off guard since I honestly didn't expect much response.

After a couple questions and some small talk he said he will forward this to the Senators desk so he can look at it.

Not sure if this is good or bad but I'm happy my letter made it to D.C.

The proposal can be seen here:

Proposal to Senator Tom Coburn M.D. (R-Okla.) for change of current CCW law | estradaarmory

[ednblue]

Boy wouldn't that be a good law - finally one I could agree with.

[the ringo kid]

Jorge, I wish you would run for national office. You'd have my vote!

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

Jorge, I wish you would run for national office. You'd have my vote!

Haha, thanks. But this proposal is just about CCW. Perhaps you don't like what I have to say to all the other issues we currently have

I mean it's a proposal and nothing is written in stone. The assistant told me that they don't wanna involve the feds, rather turn it into state law and have the other states "jump on this one" and implement it as well.

I told the assistant also that we need to put our pants back on and quit bitchin'. This back and forth is only wasting time and tax money. The pro gunners will be glad b/c their permit is recognized in all 50 states and the anti gunners have nothing to lose b/c legal carry still requires a permit (incl. safety class, range time, fingerprints, background check, etc.).

So to this point I'm really glad that it will be on the Senators desk. We'll go from there I guess

[MrJT]

Nice job.

I know Sen. Cornyn of Texas introduced a nationwide reciprocity bill back in January. The more of these that get out there the better.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by JJEH

Haha, thanks. But this proposal is just about CCW. Perhaps you don't like what I have to say to all the other issues we currently have

I mean it's a proposal and nothing is written in stone. The assistant told me that they don't wanna involve the feds, rather turn it into state law and have the other states "jump on this one" and implement it as well.

I told the assistant also that we need to put our pants back on and quit bitchin'. This back and forth is only wasting time and tax money. The pro gunners will be glad b/c their permit is recognized in all 50 states and the anti gunners have nothing to lose b/c legal carry still requires a permit (incl. safety class, range time, fingerprints, background check, etc.).

So to this point I'm really glad that it will be on the Senators desk. We'll go from there I guess

Thats ok, you are trying and show you care and also know what your talking about. 99% of those in office are clueless and care even less.

[jimmib]

my hat is off to you...I would love to see this...just did the Arizona Non-resident last weekend so I could carry in most of the 15 states we are driving through this summer

[aerodan]

How can I help support this, perhaps a follow up letter to the Senator? Well done.

[JJEH]

Thank you all so far

Originally Posted by aerodan

How can I help support this, perhaps a follow up letter to the Senator? Well done.

If you want to support this, please send me a money order.
j/k

I think the only way to achieve something is that everyone jumps on that particular boat. The more letters they get the more they see what WE THE PEOPLE want/need/expect.

I take the liberty to copy and paste the following from calguns (I have posted this on other boards as well);

Hate to tell you this but Nationwide CCW reciprocity has been proposed several times in the past three years and it all died out in the Senate.

In 2012, Feinstein placed a hold onto the bill and it eventually died out in the Senate. You can read her letter to the Senate here:
Dianne Feinstein Places Hold On Controversial Concealed Weapon Bills

Last year, it failed in the Senate with a 57-43 vote.
BREAKING: National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Amendment FAILS

Currently, HR2959 National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2013 sponsored by Rep. Richard Nugent (R-FL) is in House Committee right now. Prognosis is 2% chance of passing both House and Senate.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2959

So I'm not the first one nor the only one that thinks that way. But we need to do something. WE THE PEOPLE elected those in office. They have to work for us. Our concerns HAVE TO be addressed correctly! Even though if it fails the first few times...

[LoboGunLeather]

My understanding of the US Constitution is that all states are required to honor the official acts of other states. Marriage licenses, drivers licenses, divorce decrees, child custody orders, and many other forms of official actions are recognized and observed nationwide. The existence of this constitutional provision provides the best avenue for accomplishing the goal of nationwide reciprocity, in my opinion.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by JJEH

Thank you all so far



If you want to support this, please send me a money order.
j/k

I think the only way to achieve something is that everyone jumps on that particular boat. The more letters they get the more they see what WE THE PEOPLE want/need/expect.

I take the liberty to copy and paste the following from calguns (I have posted this on other boards as well);



So I'm not the first one nor the only one that thinks that way. But we need to do something. WE THE PEOPLE elected those in office. They have to work for us. Our concerns HAVE TO be addressed correctly! Even though if it fails the first few times...

I actually might be able to that that once I find out if I have the new job im applying for.

[aerodan]

I know I'm not alone in my frustration with our elected representatives and the constituents that seem intent on quashing our constitutional rights. That's really the only solace I take in this mess - that and I now know how to hit "donate" to the NRA-ILA, Calguns and other fantastic organizations. I am seriously thinking about going back and finishing law school - at least then I can make a real difference...

Fight the good fight,
AD

[AZretired]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

My understanding of the US Constitution is that all states are required to honor the official acts of other states. Marriage licenses, drivers licenses, divorce decrees, child custody orders, and many other forms of official actions are recognized and observed nationwide. The existence of this constitutional provision provides the best avenue for accomplishing the goal of nationwide reciprocity, in my opinion.

States are required to recognize Court documents only. Drivers licenses are recognized by States signing off on an Interstate Compact agreeing to recognize them.

[wittmeba]

I commend you for your efforts. This would be outstanding if implemented.

Just a couple comments:

I wouldn't list requirements other than the bare minimum for the least demanding state. If they do, there may be opposition from state residents where requirements are less than the universal requirements.

Example:
- fingerprints are not required in Va.
- 8 Hour class is not required (see comments).

I'm not against training but you suggested each state setting their own rules for the residents and that should remain the same. Otherwise we will have to fight each state wanting their requirements to be used to establish the minimum - this is the present problem.

It would be nice to include universal laws about carrying in a vehicle as well or a global statement that indicates you must meet your local resident state laws (this puts the burden back on law enforcement to know other state laws and might backfire).

I don't think this is asking for anything more than what we should expect and have every right to do so. We are "The United States" and there is only One Constitution and One Bill of Rights.

There should be a common document we should all send to our state congressmen.

It is always worth a shot. Thank you for your efforts!

[Arik]

Not a fan of the classroom or training thing.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[JJEH]

As I checked my P.O. box today I was really surprised to find an envelope sent by the U.S. Senate.
Dr. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) did sent a written answer to my proposal. I wasn't expecting it.

He points out that such federalization would jeopardize states' rights and stifle the laboratory of experiments intended by our nation's Founding Fathers.

He points out that he's a supporter and co-sponsor of the Respecting States Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S. 2213).

Sounds good and might be the solution.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s2213is.pdf

[GaryS]

As AZretired said, this is incorrect. The Privileges or Immunities clause of the 14th amendment was essentially made void by the Slaughterhouse cases in 1873. In that case the Supreme Court ruled that the Privileges or Immunities clause in the 14th Amendment applied only to the Federal government, not the states. There has not been a case on point since that time.

The closest that it came to consideration was in Justice Thomas's concurring, but separate opinion McDonald v. Chicago. Thomas would preferred that the Court decided McDonald on interpreting the 14th to apply against the states. The other four Justices didn't do that and so McDonald was not the far reaching case we hoped it would be.

I think that there will be nationwide reciprocity, but it will more likely come from court action than legislation.

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

My understanding of the US Constitution is that all states are required to honor the official acts of other states. Marriage licenses, drivers licenses, divorce decrees, child custody orders, and many other forms of official actions are recognized and observed nationwide. The existence of this constitutional provision provides the best avenue for accomplishing the goal of nationwide reciprocity, in my opinion.

[Fastbolt]

As has already been said, getting national CCW reciprocity accomplished by involving federal legislation and regulation might not bear the fruit some folks would expect.

It even took some repeated efforts and some years before the Drivers License Compact and Non-Resident Violator Compact would eventually become the Driver License Agreement (DLA), and some states reportedly had to be enticed to decide to join.

Then, look at the effort it took to get Congress to finally agree on the training & qualification provisions of the legislation that eventually became LEOSA. If they're going to emphasize currency of training and annual qual standards for active (state of employment) and honorably retired (state of residence) cops, you really think they're going to be any less stringent on private citizens?

Look at the constant changes and shifting of reciprocity among states that already have some degree of agreement, and how it's not hard to find disagreement about training standards. Really think that's going to get easier, rather than harder?

Then, since 3 states (last I recall, but I could be wrong) don't require licenses or permits for concealed carry (but one also offers it), if states somehow miraculously agree tomorrow to honor licenses/permits from all other states, where does that leave residents from states which don't even have licenses or permits? What do they show cops in other states?

The devil is in the details, and this is probably best left to be sorted out by the states, as it involves state permits and records.

I do think that something's eventually going to come out of all of it, though. Probably not something that's going to please everyone.

If they were to treat it like the DLA, it would also mean that certain types of violations by a visitor would be forwarded to the visitor's resident state licensing dept.

Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it, along with all the unanticipated bureaucratic, administrative and variable enforcement details that would follow trying to involve 50 states, territories and a special district.

Be nice to see it in my lifetime, though. LEOSA was a surprising, but overall pleasant, thing to see happen. (Retired cops still have to remember to go through whatever hoops are required to handle the annual qual and get the documentation, though, in addition to keeping their retirement ID current from their respective agencies.) Still a couple things that require some further tweaking, though.

[walnutred]

I like the idea in theory but given the Federal Governments natural potential to complicate an confuse simple things I believe they should start small. Let them pass a law saying that since DC is not a State and in a sense belongs to all States, DC should recognize and accept a CCW issued by ANY State. IF the Feds can get that right then we can consider letting them try national reciprocity.

[Moonman]

I wouldn't believe it TOO MANY DIFFERENCES.

STATES RIGHTS would come up over the Federal Legislation.

A STICKY WICKET to be sure.