PROPOSED LAWS

[KLYDE]

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[SMSgt]

Well, that's your view on the proposed laws, but without a link or explanation as to what these proposed laws say, it's difficult to form an opinion.

[Calaveras Slim]

+1 with SMSgt. link and explain the laws.

[Muss Muggins]

I agree. I don't live there, but I'd like to see what they want to do, and I'm too lazy to look myself. Plus, I don't know exactly which of the new laws you're unhappy with.

[Jamesatrange]

http://www.goal.org/Documents/An%20A...20(HD4253).pdf
And http://www.goal.org/Documents/DeLeo-Bill-Summary.pdf

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by KLYDE

I posted this urging MA residents to let their voices be heard. Any gun owning resident is well aware of the impending lunacy that is proposed and is awaiting vote.

I see Florida and Texas as your listed residence. I reckon your opinion doesn't really matter. Feel free to do a little research and read up.

Duly noted. I apologize for my attempt to contribute to the discussion.

[Jamesatrange]

KLYDE as we know the law abiding gun owners should all be concerned. The snowball starts somewhere and it's been starting here in the northeast. There are many free states as we call them, our states were free once too and restrictions keep surfacing for the law abiding citizens. So really gents you should all be aware and concerned. Someday these types of bills may come to your states. Sad but true, we all need to be talking about it and prepared to react.

[Calaveras Slim]

Originally Posted by KLYDE

I posted this urging MA residents to let their voices be heard. Any gun owning resident is well aware of the impending lunacy that is proposed and is awaiting vote.

I see Florida and Texas as your listed residence. I reckon your opinion doesn't really matter. Feel free to do a little research and read up.

Well considering that I also have a residence in Fitchburg, and 2, considering that you have the attitude that I have come to expect from some folk up there, guess your response doesn't surprise. They say ignorance is bliss.

All we asked for is a explaination of the new laws not a duck and dodge from some one as impolite as you
a dicho

[BrianE]

I think hes talking about, they want you to have to register all your firearms individually at your local PD.

The attitude was unnecessary and a better explanation was in order.

...and not all us MA guys have a bad attitude.

[bhayles]

Originally Posted by BrianE

I...and not all us MA guys have a bad attitude.

No, but he certainly does.

[BrianE]

...and if I'm correct about what he was trying to say... it was already posted the day prior.

[Jamesatrange]

Yeah many of us are good guys. I'm a Mass guy too and posted all the info above as it's important to see the sad laws they are trying to push upon us. You brought up an excellent point about people who own residents in multiple states. They have multiple laws to contend with while enjoying their shooting sports.

[Calaveras Slim]

Originally Posted by BrianE

I think hes talking about, they want you to have to register all your firearms individually at your local PD.

The attitude was unnecessary and a better explanation was in order.

...and not all us MA guys have a bad attitude.

That's true. I have made some great life long friends while I live up there. I bought the place when I was stationed at Ft. Devens in 1975. I was military and encountered some serious anti-military bias but after my neighbors got to know us and we them, we have had a good life. Moved home to TX. cuz of the weather.

By and large some great people up there. BUT, there are a few.

[GerSan69]

Good luck to my former neighbors up in MA. (I grew up in Lawrence.)
I can understand the whole contact your legislators, etc., etc., but the pattern is clear: the antis do not care. This isn't about educating them. It's not about logic. They want gun elimination, period, and they will try every angle of attack until they find one that passes court scrutiny.
I read the new laws on the Mass. GOAL site. Doesn't look good. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

GOAL has scheduled a rally at the State House on Wednesday starting at 11am. I'd be curious to know how many MA gun owners show up. As concerned as the OP is surely Klyde will be there. Klyde, how about taking some pics and posting them here to get an idea of rally attendance.


GOAL Rally Against H.4121 June 18

[Deuce Caboose]

For those of us familiar with Draconian gun laws here in the Commonwealth, these new proposed laws are mearly another installment. Death of our rights by 1000 cuts...
If you read through the proposed legislation, ask yourself if it could happen where you are. Think very carefully, and act accordingly. We in the pro 2A community are villified, our rights, trampled by hyper regulation, and both the US Constitution and the Massachusetts Constitution are all but worthless documents relative to RKBA. We are as passionate a group of responsible gun owners as any in the nation, small as we are. We try harder, because we have to. Still, to no avail, as the inexorable march to total ban/confiscation, is afoot, IMHO. I hope not to live long enough to see it, and will continue to do what I can, to represent Article 2 of the Bill of Rights in a positive, independent and patriotic way.

[opaul]

Can't we all just get along?

[cussedemgun]

Originally Posted by BrianE

...and not all us MA guys have a bad attitude.

The way I read it, I think you are seeing more 'frustration' than attitude.

OP is fighting a pre-planned attack on our country's constitutional rights with his reason. I said it before, I say it again, common sense has nothing to do with it, the goal is to make our country into a nation of gun hating dependent subjects. If that takes lies & propaganda, so be it.

The way our schools are teaching "evil of the gun" with fear even demonstrated by a child drawing a picture, the end of our gun ownership can't be too far away.

With each class that graduates, there are more & more people of voting age who literally cringe with fear if they see someone with a gun. 50 years ago, that number was 0% but today the gun haters are recruiting at an alarming rate & they are doing it under our very nose with our children in our schools.

How long will it take before the general populace will vote overwhelmingly to ban all private ownership of guns? IT'S COMMING, guys, in 10 or 20 years, the only guns you will see will be in the military.

One last parting thought to chew on;

The Anti's don't have to convert everyone, JUST THE MAJORITY!

[ChattanoogaPhil]

GOAL is the largest gun rights organization in MA. Been in operation 40 years. Tomorrow is the rally they are calling for at the State House. They are asking "Who will stand with us?"

There's got to be enough retired, shift workers, days off, unemployed gun owners (not to mention spouces) in MA to fill up a several block area around the State House. Now is the time to show the fight. Looking forward to seeing pics of tens of thousands in massive crowds standing with GOAL fighting for their 2A rights.

[GaryS]

If you want to see pictures of large crowds at the State House, you'll probably have to look at the Northeast Shooters forum. I went to the rally back in January of 2013 and there were about 5,000 people there (by my estimate). From the media coverage, you wouldn't think that there were 500 people there.

I'm in one of the categories you list and I plan to be there early enough tomorrow to get a good spot. I know that the MA legislators are feeling some pressure because there are rumbles about amending the legislation to address some of the concerns we've raised. Putting pressure on them is the only way we will prevent a bad bill from passing. Even at that, it's not a sure thing.

If I can get some pictures I'll post them here.

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

GOAL is the largest gun rights organization in MA. Been in operation 40 years. Tomorrow is the rally they are calling for at the State House. They are asking "Who will stand with us?"

There's got to be enough retired, shift workers, days off, unemployed gun owners (not to mention spouces) in MA to fill up a several block area around the State House. Now is the time to show the fight. Looking forward to seeing pics of tens of thousands in massive crowds standing with GOAL fighting for their 2A rights.

[ladder13]

I haven't read the Bill but my guess is that it is being patterned after NY's (un)SAFE Act.
Hope you all have better luck than us here. We did everything we could, rally's before, emails, letters, phone calls, etc etc.
We were told by the Senate leaders it was dead in the water. The Gov, I can't even say his name , pressured, cajoled, bribed, used some term which escapes me......something, of necessity. IE, "this has to be passed right away, not a minute to wait, it's for the children".
It was passed something like 1am on a Monday morning after he locked down the Legislature for the whole weekend. The Senate leaders, the one chamber controlled by RINO's,caved and sold us out. There was NO DEBATE.
Now we're in court headed to the 2nd Circuit, and who knows what after that.

Oh, we had 15,000+at a rally, and destroyed the Statehouse lawn.

[BrianE]

Originally Posted by cussedemgun

The way I read it, I think you are seeing more 'frustration' than attitude.

Its his 2nd post to quote... I dont care what the reason is frustration or a bad attitude. He came off as a jerk to the guy who asked a simple question.

If I had a frustrating day, I can talk to you with disrespect? If you cant have an explanation to your post so people understand, DONT POST. Pretty simple to me (in regards to the OP). And all i said was we dont all have a bad attitude......

But this isnt the main issue so my ranting is over .

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by GerSan69

Good luck to my former neighbors up in MA. (I grew up in Lawrence.)
I can understand the whole contact your legislators, etc., etc., but the pattern is clear: the antis do not care. This isn't about educating them. It's not about logic. They want gun elimination, period, and they will try every angle of attack until they find one that passes court scrutiny.
I read the new laws on the Mass. GOAL site. Doesn't look good. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.

I agree with everything you said except the one about passing court scrutiny. They don't care about that either. They'll pass a bad law, get slapped down by the courts, and rejoice at all the money it costs gun groups to litigate the law.
THEN, even if they get smacked, they'll just come back with a new law and the cycle starts all over again. It's a war and they're not surrendering in any way.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I haven't read the Bill but my guess is that it is being patterned after NY's (un)SAFE Act.
Hope you all have better luck than us here.

It's not, actually. The most objectionable sections are the elimination of private sales, the expansion of the "suitability" standard for issuance, the expansion of the list of crimes that are disqualifiers, and an expansion of the AGs authority to disapprove weapons for sale under "consumer protection" laws.

There is some language about "school resource officers" being armed, increased funding for the state to send data on involuntary commitments to the NICS database. In 2011, MA reported a total of ONE commitment to NICS. There were more, but that's all they got around to reporting. Actually, the state is horrible about both reporting criminal histories to NICS and correcting erroneous data.

The good thing, at least if I read the bill correctly, is that there will no longer be a "Class B" License to Carry.

I get a sense that there will be some amendments to the bill, but I don't know if they will be enough to ease our concerns.

[Illini_Glock]

Originally Posted by KLYDE

I posted this urging MA residents to let their voices be heard. Any gun owning resident is well aware of the impending lunacy that is proposed and is awaiting vote.

I see Florida and Texas as your listed residence. I reckon your opinion doesn't really matter. Feel free to do a little research and read up.

Let me get you a cup of coffee to go with that attitude.

[george minze]

When we talk about gun rights we must always remember Australia...Australia had a long standing affair with the gun much like our own. They didn't seen ashamed of their love and use of the gun..Look at some of their best known movies..Gallipoli, Breaker Morant. The Light-horsemen, Crocodile Dundee, the man from Snowy River. all of this movies were based on the Australians use and access to the gun and it's use.....Yet the gun is all but banned there now, especially the hand gun. Melbourne and Sidney controlled the outcome of a proposed law that all but banned hand guns...The rest of that enormous country did not agree with the propose legislation.....The metro city dwellers had the votes needed to pass such a wide spread and restrictive law....I watched the news specials on the turn in and disposal of thousands of guns. Grown men almost in tears as they relinquished their fire arms...Interviewed many commented they though it couldn't happen..Yet the big city dwellers especially in Sidney and Melbourne made it a cause celeb....They forgot about the thousands of square miles of outback and the Territories....The city
Australians had somehow forgot about their gun rights, and the fact the country was considered almost unconquerable as the the U.S. due to the vast amounts of territory that would need to be occupied...The point is it could happen to us here. A little harder but still possible...All it takes is a lax outlook at proposed legislation and to busy to go to the polls and the same thing could happen here. It would be harder here due to our legislative process but not impossible....Yes it would take longer and would come piece by piece but is it possible I think it could happen. Not today but our children will see this Physiological problem and their children....As they say in Chicago...Vote, and Vote often...a little play on words but I'm sure you get the drift....we should work to defeat any intrusion on our rights no matter what state it is....Our forefathers would not forgive us if trough lethargy we gave up the fight...

[GaryS]

I went to the rally as I planned. My estimate is that there were 300 or so people there, others say 200. Considering that it was 11:00AM mid week, it was not a bad turn out. I saw no counter protesters.

The number sounds small, but since most pro 2A people also work for a living, it's not easy to take a day off, especially in this economy.

The outside portion of the rally lasted about 45 minutes. There were several speakers, including a number of legislators who oppose the bill. They all said similar things, the most important of which were that we need to keep on contacting the legislators to express our opposition to the bill and demand that they either "Kill the Bill" or amend it to remove the parts that add burdens to the law abiding while doing nothing to prevent crime.

After that, a large number of the people there went inside to try to find their state senator and representative for an in person visit. I had somewhere else to go, so I didn't go into the state house. I have however already sent letters to both and will follow up with emails.

I've also sent (and urge everyone from MA) emails to every member of the House Ways and Means Committee stating my objections.

According to the people who spoke, there are several legislators who oppose the bill, but they need to hear from voters.

For those who were around in 1998, we can't sit back like we did then. We saw what happened when we were complacent. We won't make that mistake again.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

To those who showed up and stood with GOAL, bravo!

As fas as attendance... Not being in the commonwealth my opinion don't mean anything anyway... but I would question the good it does to have the largest gun rights organization in MA call on the good people of MA to stand with them for their 2A rights and near no one shows up. I would think near zero attendance can only serve to encourage anti-gun legislators.

Good luck guys.

[ladder13]

Sorry, 300 people is a disgraceful showing. In NY we had a rally a year AFTER the SAFE ACT was passed and got some 3,000 to show up. It was a Tuesday morning, April 1. Many took time off from work, school,some were in wheelchairs, others carted around oxygen tanks, and some traveled 5 hours to get there.

Hope you have better legislative results than we had.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I haven't read the Bill but my guess is that it is being patterned after NY's (un)SAFE Act.
Hope you all have better luck than us here. We did everything we could, rally's before, emails, letters, phone calls, etc etc.
We were told by the Senate leaders it was dead in the water. The Gov, I can't even say his name , pressured, cajoled, bribed, used some term which escapes me......something, of necessity. IE, "this has to be passed right away, not a minute to wait, it's for the children".
It was passed something like 1am on a Monday morning after he locked down the Legislature for the whole weekend. The Senate leaders, the one chamber controlled by RINO's,caved and sold us out. There was NO DEBATE.
Now we're in court headed to the 2nd Circuit, and who knows what after that.

Oh, we had 15,000+at a rally, and destroyed the Statehouse lawn.

You might watch out--because of destroying that lawn, you will all be forever known as Terracotta Terrorists.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

You might watch out--because of destroying that lawn, you will all be forever known as Terracotta Terrorists.

The state even had the nerve to bill the NYSRPA for the buses that were parked on the streets and parking lots, over and above the permits required for the rally.
I believe the NYSRPA hasn't paid. Found it, the bill was for $11,700.

Don't know how much they spent for lawn seed though.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Many took time off from work, school,some were in wheelchairs, others carted around oxygen tanks, and some traveled 5 hours to get there.

Well sure. And how many gun owners work within a couple mile radius of the State House who could have brown-bagged it and shown up for 20min on their lunch our? How many firemen and cops work on weekends have a Wednesday off? How about the entire retail world who works on weekends might have Wednesday off... retired... shift workers... self employed who could have stepped away for a bit... on and on and on.

Don't mean to cast negativity on the fine work of GOAL and those who stood with them, but it is difficult to spin this as a great showing for gun owners when near zero show up.

If the draconian laws already on the books and those now being proposed isn't enough to stir more than a couple hundred MA gun owners... what will? Until there's an answer to that then why even bother with these type rallies which seem to demonstrate the opposite of what is intended?

How many gun owners do you think would have somehow managed to show up at Walmart if they were advertising free bricks of .22lr?

[ladder13]

We used to have 100+ people show up for work parties at the club, after they found out free pizza was being given out to all who showed up.

That's been discontinued

[JSR III]

Well boys and girls, I was there and I was at the last one, the one before that and the one before that etc. going back into the 1970's. The trouble with many folks is its easy to bitch about something but a lot more work to do something about it. Many today aren't willing to take a day off from work to support something that they say they believe in, especially if it means giving up a vacation day. I am self employed so I didn't lose a vacation day but merely the $400 that I could have made plus $6 parking and a $5 round trip on the "T".

As far as the legislation or bill is concerned, the major negatives for me are having to list every gun that you own when you renew your LTC, the loss of face to face sales to another licensed person in the state without having to go through a dealer, the fact that the local police chief will have the discretion to deem who is suitable to have a license without cause, the power given to the AG to add any unsuitable firearm to the non approved roster (again that whole gvmt. folk deciding who is "suitable") and then a few lesser things like getting caught swiming in a restricted body of water being cause to lose you LTC for life as well as anyone that is caught using exploding golf balls being a reason for permanent loss.

The last two should definitely bring the crime rampage way down.

Again it is another piece of legislation written by non gun folks that have no understanding of legitimate gun use and their only desire is to stop someone else from enjoying something that they could give a rats behind about.

Those of you that could not make it, please write or email your legislators that you oppose this bill that only affects all ready law abiding gun owners and not criminals. Then send an email to those that stand with GOAL and thank them for their support.

We have one month to try to defeat this bill. Once passed it is much harder to reverse its affects on us.

[cmj8591]

I want everyone to know that I am from Massachusetts and I welcome the opinions of all my fellow gun owners wherever they may be from.

Even though there was a small turnout at the state house, the locals have been calling and e mailing quite heavily. There has also been a lot of blow back from some pols who the speaker thought were going to support the bill. Right now it looks like most of the license and transfer language will be stripped out of the bill before it comes up for a vote leaving the mental health language. This is not a done deal by any means and we don't know for sure what the final bill will look like so if you are from Mass and reading this, keep up the calls. And if you're not from Mass, that doesn't mean you can't call and e mail too. Our fight is your fight too.

As a suggestion to GOAL to get more people to show up at rallies: Just tell everyone they are anti welfare/EBT reform rallies!

[GaryS]

The reason for the small numbers was that it was mid week, when most law abiding gun owners have to work. As it happened, I didn't, so I went early and stayed late.

There was certainly a lot of enthusiasm, including from people driving by who honked their horns in support.

You're right about keeping pressure on. I've been urging gun owners and even people who have licenses, but no guns yet, to call and write.

Originally Posted by cmj8591

I want everyone to know that I am from Massachusetts and I welcome the opinions of all my fellow gun owners wherever they may be from.

Even though there was a small turnout at the state house, the locals have been calling and e mailing quite heavily. There has also been a lot of blow back from some pols who the speaker thought were going to support the bill. Right now it looks like most of the license and transfer language will be stripped out of the bill before it comes up for a vote leaving the mental health language. This is not a done deal by any means and we don't know for sure what the final bill will look like so if you are from Mass and reading this, keep up the calls. And if you're not from Mass, that doesn't mean you can't call and e mail too. Our fight is your fight too.

As a suggestion to GOAL to get more people to show up at rallies: Just tell everyone they are anti welfare/EBT reform rallies!

[LenS]

I wasn't at this rally, I was out of state last week, but nobody at the state house pays attention to us wrt #s of people outside the building at a rally or on Boston Common (we were banished from State House property back in 1998 when we had 5K show up during a weekday rally - I was there). My Rep asked me what the noise was about, he had no clue that we were there and the media reported "a couple hundred" back then.

I did write a 3 pg letter to all the public safety committee and my Rep/Sen as well back when it was first released (last month), called their offices, etc. I met with my Rep 3 days ago for an update on where the bill is and his concerns, etc. [GaryS, give me a call if you want to discuss this.]

-----------------

Quite simply if this bill is passed as written:

- It violates 2 USDC rulings against MA, both won by www.comm2A.org
- I predict that 20-40% of current license-holders will lose all the guns (confiscated per MGL) and licenses due to the expansion of "any misdemeanor with >1 year POTENTIAL jail term being a lifetime DQ" (regardless of the sentence meted out). [This is also ex-post facto, even if the offense is 50 yrs old!]
- It will stop almost all inheritance of handguns in MA as well as any transfers of almost all handguns in MA.
- It will allow the AG to ban transfer of any rifle/shotgun he/she chooses with no oversight.
- It will allow a staunch anti-2A LE group (MCOPA) total control over what constitutes "suitability" to deny even more people any "privilege" of gun ownership (we have no rights in MA), even for long guns (that license today is "shall issue" with no suitability considerations allowed).

In brief, these are SOME of the effects of this piece of **** legislation.

[GaryS]

That sums it up nicely, LenS. I'll give you a call when I have some time to discuss it.

[boat770]

Massachusetts SWAT teams claim they?re private corporations, immune from open records laws - The Washington Post

Saw this on another forum. Must be the planned enforcement agency. Scary stuff.

[GaryS]

This is extrapolation without even a hint of connection.

Originally Posted by boat770

Massachusetts SWAT teams claim they?re private corporations, immune from open records laws - The Washington Post

Saw this on another forum. Must be the planned enforcement agency. Scary stuff.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If they are claiming to be private rather than government agencies, then they should be subject to all gun laws in Mass like everyone else.

[cmj8591]

Of course this is the same Washington Post that advocates that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to individuals. Talk about trying to have it both ways. They whine about the militarization of police but don't think private citizens should own guns. I don't think a story spun by the liberal elite of this rag is worth getting worked up about.

[boat770]

Originally Posted by GaryS

This is extrapolation without even a hint of connection.

Not trying to extrapolate or connect anything. Just joining the discussion and trying to impart information. Timing sure is strange, however I'm absolutely sure you are correct. No connection, nothing to even worry about, nothing to see here and not a smidgen of corruption. Carry on.

[turbo6]

Despite not having lived there since the 80s, I still have a fondness for all things Massachusetts. Yeah, the laws and government are mostly terrible there but not everyone there agrees with it. Best of luck.

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