Proposed Presidental Powers Threaten 2nd Am.

[italiansport]

This change would give whoevers President carte blanke authority to negotiate and accept any and all trade related international actions.
Now consider this in respect to the UN Resolution regarding the international trade in firearms which Kerry already signed!!
Jim



2nd Amendment threatened in Obama?s trade plans

[hoc9sw]

That's an ugly read. We should be concerned. Very much so.

[smitholdtimer]

You ever noticed how the attacks just keep on coming? Its like they have nothing else to do but figure ways to attack gun owners and their right to own and use same. Seems tough for those who want to try to have a normal life to do so because there is always a new fight to fight. Could be they are trying to wear us down and get our rights while we are too tired to fight! Looks like we may need to convert our defense to shifts and have a 24 hour vigil.

[sgtsandman]

It's because you can't rule an armed population and that is what they want. If they have total control and the population has no way to fight back, they can do whatever they want, when ever they want, to whomever they want.

[touchoneoff]

Good Lord Almighty. Why do these people continually keep trying to put firearms under the knife? They do not like people who have "pointy sticks", and know how to use them.

[Vulcan Bob]

Originally Posted by sgtsandman

It's because you can't rule an armed population and that is what they want. If they have total control and the population has no way to fight back, they can do whatever they want, when ever they want, to whomever they want.

Exactly! They absolutely know that gun control does not have any real affect on violent crime. So what are their real intentions?

[dougb1946]

WND tends to enjoy stirring the pot. A treaty can not over ride the constitution. That is the law of the land. A treaty has to be approved by congress. The pres can sign it, but it is not effective unless ratified. It can not over ride the constitution, even if ratified. This particular threat pops up every once in a while, is copy/pasted around the net, lots of people get upset, nothing happens.

Exhale. Breath slowly.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

The aim of the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty is to combat the illicit international trade of arms by

1957 case Reid v. Covert, the U.S. Supreme Court established that the Constitution supersedes international treaties ratified by the U.S. Senate.

[jimsguns]

I really couldn't imagine the now Republican dominated Congress to give Obama free reign to make unchecked decisions on anything as they are already working to undo his executive actions starting with Obamacare.

[smitholdtimer]

While I do appreciate your reassurance I have very little respect for the "Snopes" people as being the final say on anything. Way too many Left Leaning folks seem to rely on them when they are sending the rebuttal to the mail they received. No trust from this citizen but that's just me.

[dougb1946]

Originally Posted by smitholdtimer

While I do appreciate your reassurance I have very little respect for the "Snopes" people as being the final say on anything. Way too many Left Leaning folks seem to rely on them when they are sending the rebuttal to the mail they received. No trust from this citizen but that's just me.

But you are willing to believe WMD when they post a message designed to stir the pot.

Can Treaties Override the Constitution? An Issue Posed By Bond v. United States | Tenth Amendment Center

Treaties cannot override the first eight amendments in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution’s other specific exceptions to federal authority (such as the ban on taxing exports). Those provisions were adopted to deny the federal government authority it otherwise might have. A treaty cannot override those limits.

Reid v. Covert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that the Constitution supersedes international treaties ratified by the United States Senate. According to the decision, "this Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty,"

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If it sounds wrong, it probably is. The internet makes it possible to overwhelm the sense of reality with false statements. Say anything often enough and loud enough, it will be believed. A well used political tactic.

The Big Lie

Make a claim that is so outrageous that people will assume that it cannot be a lie, and so accept it as truth.

Strongly assert the lie. Massage available data to 'prove' the lie as being true. Reframe vigorous denial as proof of guilt.

[smitholdtimer]

Well Sir, I have not yet declared that I believe any of it but I hesitate to become so smug that I discontinue the resistance to their efforts to disarm by what ever means, Never Say Never, in my opinion. Now before this reaches an inflammatory point that was not the intended purpose I'll refrain from any more conversation to this regard. And of course, this is my opinion only!

[Johnmuratore]

I'm with Mr. Miller. I seriously doubt that we gun owners are considered a serious threat to the Armed Forces of this great country.
But as with any and all liberties, the price is eternal vigilance.
I don't think that anything that fires up us gun owners is a bad thing. Complacency is our worst enemy.

[luangtom]

Originally Posted by dougb1946

WND tends to enjoy stirring the pot. A treaty can not over ride the constitution. That is the law of the land. A treaty has to be approved by congress. The pres can sign it, but it is not effective unless ratified. It can not over ride the constitution, even if ratified. This particular threat pops up every once in a while, is copy/pasted around the net, lots of people get upset, nothing happens.

Exhale. Breath slowly.

snopes.com: U.N. Arms Trade Treaty

What makes SNOPES the all-knowing inerrant authority so many give it credit for?
Who runs it, funds it and directs it?

[quneur]

I say we turn the tables and use the same tactics on another right; the first amendment. With kids committing suicide over bullying, threats by internet or social media, we could use those as a spring board to take away people's right to free speech. We can make people register their medium for speech; facebook, blog or podium.

Is there much different between the first and second? Is one more important than the other? Isn't a bullied kid that goes and shoots up a school as dangerous as anyone else who shoots up a school?

[dougb1946]

Originally Posted by luangtom

What makes SNOPES the all-knowing inerrant authority so many give it credit for?
Who runs it, funds it and directs it?

Good questions to ask- actually good questions to ask any source of info, including your local congress critter. Google other sources, remembering that the easiest way to spread false info is to copy-paste often. Look for a source that is reliable.

WorldNet Daily Continues to Pump Out Outrageous Propaganda | Southern Poverty Law Center

WorldNet Daily Continues to Pump Out Outrageous
Propaganda

WorldNetDaily Named America?s Second-Most-Trustworthy News Source: It?s a Major Award! | Wonkette

WND came in second only to the Drudge Report, and its trustworthiness was determined to be greater than other honorees such as The Blaze, Ghost Andrew Breitbart, Fox News, NewsBusters, The Weekly Standard, and, at number eight, some thing called “The Wall Street Journal.”
l]

Believe what you choose. Apparently everybody lies about something. I prefer college or university science reports with data that I can see and some kind of verification-or am I lying about that?

[ChiefStealth]

Originally Posted by dougb1946

(snip) I prefer college or university science reports with data that I can see and some kind of verification-or am I lying about that?

Except, of course, for the reports, "from a leading university", that were bought and paid for by some quasi-political entity, to substantiate the opinions of them that paid for it.

[TraderJack]

I'm afraid my only addition is the old saw..."From these cold, dead hands...etc."

[GerSan69]

Fellas, fellas, fellas. It's not what WND makes it out to be. The Trade Promotion Authority is not an end-around play on the Constitution. It's been in force off and on since 1974. Yes, it's controversial because giving this president anything but the key to the executive washroom is a risk, but since the purpose is to facilitate free trade between the USA and other nations, it's not going to lead to martial law or mass confiscation of firearms.

[quneur]

Originally Posted by ClayCow

Are you saying the military would not.let this happen? I find that hard to believe. Our orders come from the president and we follow them regardless if we like them or not. I also find it hard to believe that my brothers and sisters in arms really carea about Obamas citizenship status. He is in, he gives orders, and we execute them. From my dealings with the military, there is no point in being resistant to policies we ont believe in, we just laugh about it. Just like duffleblog.

Before I say something that would shut this thread down, I would tone down my hypothetical situation. That said, I will simply ask, 'how far would you go in a situation of "just following orders" ?'

[ClayCow]

Originally Posted by quneur

Before I say something that would shut this thread down, I would tone down my hypothetical situation. That said, I will simply ask, 'how far would you go in a situation of "just following orders" ?'

Hehe. I dont know. Im sure weve all seen movies with this dilemna and this, would be a personal one which i would not know until encountered.

But i sincerely doubt anything short of life limb or eye sight, people would obey. Sure it is unconstitutional to confiscate guns if required, but it is not our job to interpret the constitution. Now rounding up thousands of citizens and murdering them is a moral and ethical dilemna that im sure many would habe problema following without just causr.

[REM 3200]

Folks, slow down and read this one again...

"1957 case Reid v. Covert, the U.S. Supreme Court established that the
Constitution supersedes international treaties ratified by the U.S. Senate."

[ladder13]

The Southern Poverty Law Center is never my source when I look for the truth.

Morris Dees would make a fine ShamWow salesman.