Open carry in Florida

[Bugkiller99]

Florida is one of few states with a complete ban on open carry, with a few minor exceptions.
Seems some of the big city State Attorney offices have been procecuting folks who have inadvertantly revealed their firearms during cc. This is inspite of the fact the law allows for brief moment of revealment.
There are bills in both houses of the state legislature to allow open carry for anyone with a CCW permit. Maybe not the ideal arrangment, but it addresses the current government abuse.
All you in Florida need to contact your local legislature members and let you feeling be know. This is up for committe vote this week.
Floridacarrry.org is strongly behind this bill. Unfortunately, I have not seen a lot of support from NRA.
Let your voice be heard.

[MadJack!]

I first discovered HB 163 through an NRA e-mail. The NRA has been working in support of it along with many LEO chiefs across the state.

[hatt]

Originally Posted by MadJack!

I first discovered HB 163 through an NRA e-mail. The NRA has been working in support of it along with many LEO chiefs across the state.

The NRA/USF killed the bill that was all but passed and signed a few years ago so I suggest you call them and give them a talking to.
I'd also like to see the names of the CLEO who support OC. I know of one. I know the FL Sheriffs Association was saying last time they'd be harassing OCers if the law passed.

[RobzGuns]

Originally Posted by Bugkiller99

There are bills in both houses of the state legislature to allow open carry for anyone with a CCW permit. Maybe not the ideal arrangment, but it addresses the current government abuse.

This is the same 'Baby Steps' route Texas is taking. With the support of the Republican Majority of both State House and Senate, we were able to achieve Licensed Open Carry last Session and it will go into effect January 2016. Even though it's not the ideal 'Constitutional Carry' other States enjoy, it's a step in the right direction.

Which party has control of the FL Congress? If it's Republican controlled, you guys have a good chance. If it's Democrat controlled, you need to REALLY get out there and spread the word to every Gun owner you can reach.

Good Luck!

[hangnoose]

If I'm not wrong we are allowed to O.C. during & to-from hunting & fishing, as well as on private land, So NOT a complete ban IMO. Now before breaking out the flame throwers, I'm pro gun as anyone & a CCL holder too, but some times & places it just wouldn't seem wise to OC, but the decision should ultimately be up to the lawful owner/carrier. Hopefully some common sense will be used if the law passes. Of course I'll vote yes.

[SMSgt]

And can you point out a link to said cases of charges being filed in some large cities? I have heard of none. The change to the law is very specific in that momentary exposure is not a violation of OC law.

[mike from st pete]

While I sort of understand IL, NY, and CA.
What is up with my GunShine State and South Carolina?
Govs. Scott and Haley are you seeing this?

[jtpur]

Not exactly open carry but this is the letter I just wrote to Congressman Ted Deutch (D) from the 21st District of Florida

With the recent senseless violence in Oregon once again you on the left try to exploit a crisis. You have moved from the use of the term "GUN CONTROL" and now try to use the more soft term of
"COMMON SENSE GUN SAFETY."

The left rails against the NRA. I must tell you, I am your middle income, hard working American and a proud member of the NRA. I also vote in every election. I get quite upset that somehow you on the left think I should have no voice in American politics, and my lobby runs Congress. While I would personally love for every gun owning American to join the organization we both know that only a few actually get involved in any specific cause yet I know that I speak and understand the vast majority of Americans who support our Second Amendment Freedom which we now only enjoy by one very slim vote on the SCOTUS.

I would also like you to know that I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer with over twenty five years of service in both municipal and state law enforcement. I fully, completely and without reservation support Concealed Carry on College Campus. I firmly believe that had any student been armed in Colorado, Virginia or any place else where "Gun Free Zones" exist that a life would be spared. You may not believe this but I do and many of us "Bible and gun clinging" Americans do so too.

If you really want to do something, quit pretending and just introduce a repeal of the Second Amendment. You do not have the courage to do so but you will try every tactic to get around the Constitution.

When I know full well the governments of the UK and Australia banned and confiscated lawful gun owners firearms and the leader of your Party and the President of the United States says we should be like our allies and specifically names those two countries, Sir it is not a far stretch of my imagination to believe that you on the left want to ban my right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Mainsail]

Florida needs to revert back to the 1868 version of their Constitution: "The people shall have the right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State." Art. I, § 22.

[MadJack!]

Senate Bill 68, Campus Carry passed the Senate Sub Committee in a 5-3 vote, divided by party lines.

SB 300, open carry for those with CCW Licenses passed it's sub committee with a 3-2 vote, once again divided along party lines.

[snuffy51]

It took Tennessee a few tries before finally passing the OC with CC/permit in place now. I even hope to think now that some of our politicians are beginning to realize they are NOT going to see the "Constitutional Bible totin' gun huggin' our right right to defend ourselves from harm and an oppressive government AMERICANS" aren't getting tired and are not going away. Safety is of great importance to all of us and our country.

[MadJack!]

But don't give up on letting the legislatures know we need to defend ourselves! We need to continue being heard.

[Damn Yankee]

Here in Mississippi "Open Carry" means just that. You don't need a permit.
an officer can't stop you and question you just because he sees you wearing a gun," "He has to have probable cause to ask you questions and obtain other information."

[Bugkiller99]

Now a big city sheriff has come out against open carry. Pinellas County Sheriff Gaultieri. Read this interview.
Pinellas Sheriff fights open-carry bill with bad info - The Gun Writer
We've got to keep writing our state reps and senators, keep the pressure on them to do the right thing. Nitwit big city Sheriff does not represent us.

[snuffy51]

Just about anywhere any, good, favorable "new" gun laws are passed, brings hand wringing and predictions of "blood in the streets". Never happens, just check with any honest report on crime. The crooks and gangbangers have been and always will be armed. Good, go to work everyday, have families and friends people, that are legally armed, can have a chance. LE cannot be everywhere at all times. Bad things usually happen quickly. Around my home area and most places I go often to do things, I would not bet on who is armed and who is not, even with open carry legal. Real nice place. The safest place I know of personally is Kennesaw Ga. My wife is a Georgia Peach from Cobb CO. GA. and we visit that area often. Look up that towns' gun laws sometime. The only bad thing there I can remember was a "work place shooting" at the FED EX terminal, AKA, "GUN FREE ZONE" in Kennesaw, not too awfully long ago. They are a fine example of good people with guns. Tell the Florida lawmakers to check it out. Have a nice day and be safe.

[Damn Yankee]

I agree with you Snuffy, over here in Mississippi when Gov Bryant signed into law open carry I heard a lot of fellow officers complaining about this law was bad. I never see anyone with a gun on thier hip unless they have badge around their neck.

All of the talk about scaring women and children, you going to have your weapon taken from you, the police are going to harass you (they can't do that) concealed is better turned into nothing.

It has even gotten better, now it is legal for women to just put their gun in their purse or carry bag and go on about there way. Men can carry a gun in a briefcase with no permit. I haven't seen any blood in the streets from honest folks only from the drug folks.

We better start exercising our rights and the hell what others think because it won't be long you are going to wish for the good old days.

Ask the gun owners in New York State how they lost there rights. How can so few tell and dictate what the majority have to do? You can call us a bunch of "Red Necks" down here but Bloomberg and his bunch ain't going to happen in Mississippi.

Take a look, we are still flying our State Flag, nobody's taken that down yet. were going to have a vote on that. Maybe in a couple of years.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Bugkiller99

Now a big city sheriff has come out against open carry. Pinellas County Sheriff Gaultieri. Read this interview.
Pinellas Sheriff fights open-carry bill with bad info - The Gun Writer
We've got to keep writing our state reps and senators, keep the pressure on them to do the right thing. Nitwit big city Sheriff does not represent us.

That sheriff has a right to his opine, but being an elected official,
he ought to voice the opinions of his constituents and lay his personal prejudices aside.



Jest speakin philosophically here......

Open Carry, in any local, is not about promenading around town with a sidearm....
It's about a man's inalienable rights, undermine one and they all are sure to fall.


.

[shell627]

I will say this again.Any place that open carry has become the law.It has not caused any extra bloodshed .It has been a non event.Some people have to pull up their big boy or girl panties and get over it.

[MadJack!]

NRA-ILA | Florida Alert! Sheriffs Continuing to Speak Out in Support of Open Carry

[snuffy51]

Been following the Florida OC story at Ammoland. Took awhile in Tennessee, now we working on constitutional/no permit . Staying civil and working with NRA and TFA and all law abiding citizens.

[MadJack!]

Florida Alert: The Truth about Open Carry -- Erroneous Claims Exposed

DATE: November 1, 2015
TO: USF & NRA Members and Friends
FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President

Many folks remember that during the fight to pass Florida's Concealed Carry law, the Florida Sheriffs Association opposed concealed carry. They literally said they didn't like "hidden guns."

At the time, open carry was legal in Florida and had been for decades. They said if people were going to be allowed to carry guns, they needed to carry them openly so law enforcement officers could see them and know who had guns -- they claimed it was a matter of officer safety.

Now, they have reversed positions. They claim concealed carry is fine and they don't mind concealed guns. BUT, open carry is dangerous. They claim they won't know the good guys from the bad guys, and one sheriff (now retired) said law enforcement would have to "draw down" and anybody carrying openly. You've probably heard or read most of the rhetoric.

They always lead off saying they are strong Second Amendment supporters then proceed to explain why they OPPOSE Second Amendment rights.

The Constitution guarantees your right to keep and bear arms and it certainly doesn't say you can only exercise your rights if your sheriff agrees with it.

Below are the facts about open carry -- it is a rebuttal of some the latest claims. You may also click here The Truth About Open Carry to download a copy for the fact sheet to share with others.

The Truth About

The Open Carry Bill & the 45 States that Allow Open Carry

In recent Palm Beach Post Blog articles and a Tampa Bay Times Blog article, the Chairman of the Florida Sheriffs Association's Legislative Committee (FSA) is quoted with some erroneous claims regarding the proposed open carry bill in Florida (SB-300 by Sen. Don Gaetz and HB-163 by Rep. Matt Gaetz).

In recent Palm Beach Post Blog articles and a Tampa Bay Times Blog article, the Chairman of the Florida Sheriffs Association's Legislative Committee (FSA) is quoted with some erroneous claims regarding the proposed open carry bill in Florida (SB-300 by Sen. Don Gaetz and HB-163 by Rep. Matt Gaetz).

Below are some of those claims and our responses.

FSA CLAIM: "The bill as currently drafted is extremely broad, lacking limits on when, how or where firearms could be carried."

FACT: The same provisions and restrictions that apply to concealed carry also apply to open carry (s.790.06). Only a person with a license to carry concealed will be able to carry openly. Additionally, the improper exhibition of firearms law (s.790.10) applies whether carrying concealed or openly.

Further, because of these and other erroneous claims, a clarification amendment, to stop open carry opponents from continuing to make such false claims, was added to the bill in Senate Criminal Justice Committee the morning of 10/20/15 – We know the spokesman made that claim even AFTER the clarification amendment was added because the spokesman made reference to an amendment "that didn't pass" in the same committee meeting.

Since the FSA spokesman obviously doesn't want to believe the NRA's data, the following data was provided by Florida Carry, Inc. – and their data confirms ours.

FSA CLAIM: "The bill's proponents claim that 45 other states already allow open-carry. But that's not really accurate."

FACT: To the contrary, it is accurate. Forty-five (45) states allow open carry of firearms. Varying restrictions on open carry in some states does not alter the fact that 45 states allow open carry.
15 of 45 open carry states require a license to carry concealed or openly.
30 of 45 open carry states do not require any license to carry openly.
0 of 15 of the concealed carry license states require additional training to carry openly.
0 of 45 states offer a separate "open carry" license.
2 of 45 states require an open carry holster. On 1/1/16 Texas will require a holster.
0 of 45 states require a retention holster.
5 of 15 are "may-issue" states where law enforcement issues licenses.
15 of 15 states require the license holder to produce the license on lawful demand by a law enforcement officer.
FSA CLAIM: "... most open-carry states have strict rules about ... producing the permit on demand."

FACT: This is a red herring. FLORIDA law already requires license holders to produce a license on demand by a law enforcement officer. And for the record, all 15 states that require a license, require producing the license on lawful demand by a law enforcement officer.

FSA CLAIM: "...[I]t's ‘intellectually dishonest' to say open carry laws are working in the 45 other states because there are so many variations in the laws and the demographics.

FACT: The open carry laws are working in 45 states. Opponents have presented no evidence to the contrary – no evidence that it isn't working in any state and no evidence of problems in any state. These are just baseless allegations. Simply because different states have variations in their laws does not in any way alter the fact that open carry is allowed and that it’s working.

FSA CLAIM: "In Pennsylvania, for example, cities can opt out of its open carry law and some, including Philadelphia, do just that, Gualtieri said. Florida cities don't have the option to opt out of a state law."

FACT: Pennsylvania DOES NOT allow cities to opt out of its open carry law. Pennsylvania does not require a license for a person to carry openly. Philadelphia cannot "opt out" of the state open carry law. Pennsylvania state law allows the city of Philadelphia (and only Philadelphia) to require a license to carry openly in Philadelphia.

FSA CLAIM: As for demographics, "You can't compare Sioux Falls, S.D. to downtown Miami or downtown Tampa or downtown Orlando," Gualtieri said.

FACT: This argument is illogical and perhaps intentionally misleading. Seventy percent (70%) of the American public live in open carry states from all regions of the country. Many of the 45 open carry states have large and diverse cities just like Florida and where you live geographically, whether it's Trilby, FL or Fanning Springs, FL, you have the same constitutional rights as citizens who live in Miami, Tampa, or Orlando.

FSA CLAIM: "...the state's trespass law gives businesses the right to ask anyone openly carrying a weapon to leave their property," but they ... "will be reluctant to tell a person wearing a .45 to leave."

FACT: Posting signs prohibiting open carry inside a business establishment is a simple solution. Proper notification will stop citizens from even entering the establishment. Property owners already must post trespass signs to notify the public to stay off private property.

Businesses have the right to refuse service and evict anyone they wish unless it's done on the basis of race, gender, or religion. Further, it is common to see signs that say, "No shirt, no shoes - no service." Why are they reluctant to post signs saying, "No open carrying of firearms?"

FSA CLAIM: "..if you are McDonald's you won't be able to exclude somebody from putting their gun on the table and sitting there and eating."

FACT: Again, any business may evict a customer for behavior they deem to be offensive, dangerous or inappropriate. Further it is a criminal offense under s.790.10 to exhibit a firearm in a rude or careless manner.

[Philadelphia Patriot]

I can't wait to walk down Miami beach in nothing but a speedo and colt anaconda.

...of course people might think I'm overcompensating for something else...

[keith44spl]

Or maybe, that Sheriff Assoc. needs to issue some lighter-weight badges.


.

[redlevel]

"FACT: This is a red herring. FLORIDA law already requires license holders to produce a license on demand by a law enforcement officer. And for the record, all 15 states that require a license, require producing the license on lawful demand by a law enforcement officer."

Maybe it is splitting hairs, but The Georgia "Guns Everywhere" law specifically precludes an officer from demanding to see a permit just because of the presence of a gun.

The law reads:
“A person carrying a weapon shall not be subject to detention for the sole purpose of investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license.”

Of course, if the officer has reasonable suspicion to indicate that criminal activity is likely, then he/she may ask for a permit. That would be a "lawful demand."

[ChattanoogaPhil]

We've got our share of deep thinkers....

In response to legislation legalizing open carry without a permit, Claiborne County Sheriff David Ray shared this wisdom. --

"If the word got out or if people knew they could come to Tennessee and carry a weapon, I'm sure that armed robberies are going to increase."

I wonder why Tennessee armed robbers haven't relocated to states that allow open carry without a permit?

[keith44spl]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sheriff Ray can send them armed robbers north to the Bluegrass.
Constitutional carry since state hood, we don't need no stinkin badges...
er state permission permits for open carry.

We treat all criminals equally.....

.

[tops]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

We've got our share of deep thinkers....

In response to legislation legalizing open carry without a permit, Claiborne County Sheriff David Ray shared this wisdom. --

"If the word got out or if people knew they could come to Tennessee and carry a weapon, I'm sure that armed robberies are going to increase."

I wonder why Tennessee armed robbers haven't relocated to states that allow open carry without a permit?

I'm led to believe that thar shurf don't know much. Larry

[snuffy51]

Even without any permit, loaded handguns and long arms are legal to have and carry in your business, home/on your property, and your vehicle as long as you can legally purchase one. Open carry hand gun is legal w/cc permit, no problem. Our police force, is often complained about as being too tough on lawbreakers, and even enforcing traffic laws, like just speeding a "little", weaving & crossing lane & center lines, lights out, DUI, running traffic lights, and searching and making drug and illegal firearm arrests, "minor stuff", as considered by some. Only thing ever even mentioned about armed "permit" holders in the news, anywhere I've seen, is the tremendous increase in their numbers and on very rare occasions actually having to present their weapon and even less about actually firing it. Bad guys can usually run very fast. Personally, I love it here because knowing there are more armed, law abiding people, willing to pay for and taking the permit classes, paying for finger prints, having backround check and having to shell out even more $$ for the permit from the Department of Safety, just to legally be able to protect yourself from the bad guys' who are not required to do any of this. Just get a gun and go to it. This is what "legally armed", LE0 supporting, and like minded people do actually produce. Come for a visit anytime and I can show you the difference with a 45 minute drive west thru and around the politely unnamed city, read the paper and look at a couple of newscasts. AKA "gang and drug problems". Too many people now speak of and demand "respect" that have no idea of what it means or that it also has to be earned. I will not touch the attitude toward LEO's, I'm probably in trouble by now already. Just statin' my feelin's as civil as I can. If anyone managed to read this far, thanks for your time. I haven't been accused of thinking very often but never accused of being afraid of stating my feelings. Need to add this though, I still feel strongly that constitutional carry , as per the 2nd amendment, should be the way. Being able to go through the process and pay the fees to carry a weapon is only a step towards full rights. No reason to stop the fight. The only "weapon" we we have for that is speaking loudly enough to be heard by voting our convictions and not for handouts. We are still America and will be again. Be proud!

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by MadJack!

Florida Alert: The Truth about Open Carry -- Erroneous Claims Exposed

.................
They always lead off saying they are strong Second Amendment supporters then proceed to explain why they OPPOSE Second Amendment rights.
............................

I hear that quite often, they then follow with approval for mandatory fees and mandatory training to exercise 2A rights.

[Bugkiller99]

Open carry is up for another committee vote in the Legislature. House committe votes Nov 18. Need all the support we can get.

Folks, it's a busy time for numerous pro gun bills in Florida. Numerous committee hearings taking place.

CONTACT your state legislative representatives and let your voice be heard.

[soFlaNative]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

What's so great about open carry?

Topic for another sub forum most likely but it's good to have options for a personal choice.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

What's so great about open carry?

It lets you show off your really cool BBQ rig.

[Bugkiller99]

Alright, time to beat the drums again. This is up for another vote in the Legislature tomorrow. You fellow Floridians, contact your Legislators. They nene to hear from you. Because you know the anti's are out there, being heard.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

I've found only one reference to this. It's the Dale Norman case in Fort Pierce, Florida, from February of 2012...almost four years ago. And it only involves one state attorney.
...
But here are some facts: the state attorney who prosecuted Dale Norman is Angela Corey, and she's the State Attorney for Duval, Clay, and Nassau counties, the 4th Judicial Circuit.

A fairly recent poll states that 51% of voters disapprove of the job she's doing. And she's blatantly anti-gun, anti-2A.

But guess what? She will be up for re-election in 2016. Every eligible voter can vote in the primary, which will be held on August 30, 2016.

So all you guys in Florida know what you have to do. Get your grass roots campaigns going. Corey's office is already being accused of corruption and bias. In 2014, the governor was picketed, demanding that he suspend Corey. That didn't work.

If you want to help implement change in Florida, vote her out of office.

Unfortunately it will be up to the voters of those counties to reject her as she is not on a statewide ballot--but yes, she needs to go.

[Watchdog]

As expected, legislation to allow open carry in Florida by the state's approximately 1.5 million concealed carry permit holders is 99% DOA in the Florida Senate. It's extremely doubtful it'll even get a hearing.

And Florida Senate Bill 68, which would have allowed campus carry, is already dead and buried (for the second time). There is an identical measure trying to make it through the Florida House, but even it if does, it'll drop dead if it even makes it to the Senate.

Open carry in Florida? Not gonna happen in 2016.

[Ogandydancer]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

That sheriff has a right to his opine, but being an elected official,
he ought to voice the opinions of his constituents and lay his personal prejudices aside.



Jest speakin philosophically here......

Open Carry, in any local, is not about promenading around town with a sidearm....
It's about a man's inalienable rights, undermine one and they all are sure to fall.


.

A big Amen a to both paragraphs. The first paragraph should go for EVERY elected official but, un-fortunately so many think that can just do what ever they want after they are elected and, to heck with what their constituents want.

[Retired Chief]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Patriot

I can't wait to walk down Miami beach in nothing but a speedo and colt anaconda.

...of course people might think I'm overcompensating for something else...

THINK? In a Speedo? They'll KNOW if you're ove

[snuffy51]

I read about it and look like ya'll got a state senator needin' voted out for sure.

[Bugkiller99]

UnAmerican for one person to hold up a vote on a bill that almost all expect would pass both the committee and the full State Senate if it were brought to a vote.

We need to press the incoming Senate President that IF this guy gets re-elected, that he doesn't hold any leadership position. And work to see he does not get re-elected in the first place!

Edit for background: Senator Miguel Diaz de la Portilla, (R) from Miami Dade County, is the Chairman of he Senate Judiciary Committee. The Open Carry Bill is slated for his committee, but he has refused to put it on the the Committee Agenda for vote. Unless this changes, the bill is dead.

[Watchdog]

As reported on March 3, 2016, the bill to allow Floridians with concealed carry permits to openly carry their handguns is dead.

The bill never made it out of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

[Bugkiller99]

Session has ended. Bill died in committee. NOW is the time to begin work on passage next year.

[mistermills357]

Open carry is OK, I have done it WV & Kentucky, but it has drawbacks like anything else does.
As far as being prosecuted for revealing a concealed weapon, it seems like a weak case, and the PA's must lose a lot of those.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Bugkiller99

Bill died in committee.

That what I said two weeks ago on March 4 in Post #41.

Originally Posted by Bugkiller99

NOW is the time to begin work on passage next year.

Grass roots support is going to have to be a lot stronger than it was this time. And legislators don't look fondly on gun owners who complain that they can't afford conceal carry licensing/qualification fees but have spent hundreds or even thousands on handguns. So the open carry advocates need to drop that line of reasoning from their arguments, because that one isn't working for them.

Originally Posted by mistermills357

Open carry is OK, I have done it WV & Kentucky, but it has drawbacks like anything else does.

The Florida open carry horse really is dead. It isn't coming back to life. Why keep beating it? Other states allow open carry, but that's totally irrelevant to Florida and any bills introduced to allow it there.