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Old 11-14-2015, 10:33 PM
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Default Concerned that NJ will soon come down hard on guns

Within the past year, the NJ legislature passed about 20 anti gun laws All but the most onerous became law. Governor Christie vetoed two or three.

I expect to soon see:

A New York State type of ban on semi auto rifles, with no meaningful grandfathering.

Much harder restrictions on getting and keeping the firearms purchaser card

Magazine ban down to 10 or 7 from the current 15.

Not much to do except comply when it happens
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:48 PM
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"Not much to do except comply when it happens"

Music to a politician's ears.
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:53 PM
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That's what happens when you live in a communist country
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:55 PM
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Could move to the USA,or a free state.
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:04 PM
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I reckon ya'all need to load up the truck and head out yonder. Plenty of room down in the holler.

Where do ya think all your neighbors have gone? That is when Christie isn't blocking the bridges. That's how the Berlin wall got started.

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Old 11-14-2015, 11:11 PM
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There is mass noncompliance with the new "laws" passed in CT, NY, and WA, to include a gun show that flied directly in the face of the new laws.

Way I see it illegitimate acts of government should be disobeyed.

Or, you can vote with your feet, as others have suggested.

But you could comply. If thats who you are.

Its not how I am.

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Old 11-14-2015, 11:16 PM
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Or, if you are in NJ perhaps if enough were to vote (not with your feet thing) and LOUDLY and regularly object...

But if that doesn't work let NJ become the utopia the legislature and Governor, who signs the legislation is seeking and move west or south young man!

But then there is that voting thing...

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Old 11-15-2015, 12:31 AM
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Default You're probably right

Having lived (past tense) and worked in NJ for many years, it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant and stupid the electorate is, a microcosm of what we are seeing nationwide.

The choices between the current occupant of the governor's office, whose only interest is running for president, and the opposition, which is composed of a totally out of touch bunch of sycophants loyal only to power brokers and lobbyists is a disgrace.

I think your assessment is spot on. Bad gun laws are looming in NJ's future, and no leadership on the opposing side.
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat Guano View Post
"Not much to do except comply when it happens"

Music to a politician's ears.
Population of New Jersey is just under 9,000,000 (2010 census). Assuming that NJ residents follow the national norm for firearms ownership, this means that about 3,000,000 people own firearms.

Total populations now in NJ prisons and jails is about 30,000. Unless NJ is significantly different than any other US state, that number is just about capacity (or a little over capacity). That number equates to about 1% of NJ gun owners. So, if one of every one hundred NJ gun owners refuses to comply and appears in a public peaceful civil disobedience gathering with a banned item:

1. There is no way to arrest that number of people.
2. There are no jail cells to hold that number of people.
3. If every one refuses to post bail or give a promise to appear there will be no way to proceed with any criminal case.
4. If every one charged enters a 'not guilty' plea and demands a trial by jury:
A. 30,000 criminal cases would have to be scheduled for arraignments, advisements, preliminary hearings, and trials;
B. 360,000 NJ adult residents would have to serve on juries (actually about 2,500,000 to 3,000,000 would have to be called to jury duty during selection processes);
C. If all 30,000 were convicted and refused to pay any fine or costs, or accept any terms of probation or conditional release, the State of New Jersey would have to release every other prisoner now being held in every prison and jail in order to make room for these new inmates.

The short version is that just 1% of the subset of population comprising gun owners could, if organized and standing firm, completely shut down the legal system of the State of New Jersey (or any other state) while also making a crystal clear demonstration in the public media that no law can be imposed without the willing compliance of the vast majority of the population.

Other possibilities include organizing a relatively small percentage of gun owners, say 5% (roughly 150,000 NJ gun owners), and publicly refusing to pay any NJ taxes (property tax, school tax, income tax, etc) as long as the objectionable (and unconstitutional) laws remain in force. The immediate impact would be hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue for the State of New Jersey. Those in the state capitol would learn very quickly that it is impossible to impose their will without the means to pay salaries to all the cops, prison staff, judges, and others necessary to gain compliance.

Your statement "Not much to do except comply when it happens" is exactly what they want to hear. Stop giving them what they want and start organizing with like-minded people willing to engage in peaceful civil disobedience on the largest possible scale.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:17 AM
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Call me a wimp if you want.
I will comply and let someone else be the test case.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
Population of New Jersey is just under 9,000,000 (2010 census). Assuming that NJ residents follow the national norm for firearms ownership, this means that about 3,000,000 people own firearms.

Total populations now in NJ prisons and jails is about 30,000. Unless NJ is significantly different than any other US state, that number is just about capacity (or a little over capacity). That number equates to about 1% of NJ gun owners. So, if one of every one hundred NJ gun owners refuses to comply and appears in a public peaceful civil disobedience gathering with a banned item:

1. There is no way to arrest that number of people.
2. There are no jail cells to hold that number of people.
3. If every one refuses to post bail or give a promise to appear there will be no way to proceed with any criminal case.
4. If every one charged enters a 'not guilty' plea and demands a trial by jury:
A. 30,000 criminal cases would have to be scheduled for arraignments, advisements, preliminary hearings, and trials;
B. 360,000 NJ adult residents would have to serve on juries (actually about 2,500,000 to 3,000,000 would have to be called to jury duty during selection processes);
C. If all 30,000 were convicted and refused to pay any fine or costs, or accept any terms of probation or conditional release, the State of New Jersey would have to release every other prisoner now being held in every prison and jail in order to make room for these new inmates.

The short version is that just 1% of the subset of population comprising gun owners could, if organized and standing firm, completely shut down the legal system of the State of New Jersey (or any other state) while also making a crystal clear demonstration in the public media that no law can be imposed without the willing compliance of the vast majority of the population.

Other possibilities include organizing a relatively small percentage of gun owners, say 5% (roughly 150,000 NJ gun owners), and publicly refusing to pay any NJ taxes (property tax, school tax, income tax, etc) as long as the objectionable (and unconstitutional) laws remain in force. The immediate impact would be hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue for the State of New Jersey. Those in the state capitol would learn very quickly that it is impossible to impose their will without the means to pay salaries to all the cops, prison staff, judges, and others necessary to gain compliance.

Your statement "Not much to do except comply when it happens" is exactly what they want to hear. Stop giving them what they want and start organizing with like-minded people willing to engage in peaceful civil disobedience on the largest possible scale.
I have not confirmed the assertion from bushmaster1313 that roughly 20 new firearm laws have passed in New Jersey the past year but for sake of discussion will accept the assertion. It doesn't surprise me New Jersey is passing a significant number of "under the radar" firearm laws. It seems to be the modus operandi du jour from our elected and appointed officials. So, who doesn't think New Jersey would not have been better served by enforcing current laws instead of passing roughly 20 new ones?

Evidence that LoboGunLeather's basic premise works in reality:
The below Town Hall article refers to such action where 1,000-3,000 firearm owners openly violated the new Washington I-594 law on the State Capitol grounds.
link to article:
Over 1,000 Gun Owners Violate Washington

From the Townhall.com article titled Over 1,000 Gun Owners Violate Washington’s I-594 - In Front Of Police!:
"The Second Amendment is gradually being eroded, state by state, ....."

We're are getting such a large volume of new rules, regulations, and laws from both Federal and State governments and entities it's impossible for the 'average Joe' to keep up with, not just any new firearm regulations, but all the other stuff too. Reminds me of the old saying, "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance then baffle 'em with (a whole lot of) BS."

From The Congressional Research Service:
"...the number of final rules published each year is generally in the range of 2,500-4,500, according to the Office of the Federal Register."
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wsr View Post
That's what happens when you live in a communist country
Russia is loosening its requirements for gun ownership
https://www.rt.com/news/206703-russi...-self-defense/
Quote:
the Russian government eases restrictions, allowing citizens to carry licensed weapons for the purposes of ‘self-defense.’
Japan, a democracy and very capitalistic, went the other way.
A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - The Atlantic
Quote:
The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it's not easy to do.
Between half and 2/3 of US gun deaths are suicides. Japan, with almost no guns, has a suicide rate twice that of the US.
The Japanese are not us. They have a long tradition go obedience to authority and behaving in a manner appropriate to their neighbors. We do not.

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Old 11-15-2015, 11:06 AM
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You spend money every year to use a gun. Let the politicians know that if you can not use that money for shooting, your new hobby will be politics and you will donate to, work for, and vote for anyone that runs against them. Write, phone, e-mail often. They love hearing from the little people.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:28 AM
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Thumbs up No regrets in being a refuge from NJ

November 2 1972
I boarded a jet for boot camp in Orlando FL
I left never thinking on returning.

I never forgot the cap gun I ordered from the back of a magazine in about 1960. It came in the mail. It was OPENED!
The dreaded tool for shooting greenie stick-um caps was inspected by the USPS.
I felt violated. Mistrusted and did not like it.

The feeling was perpetuated in 1971 when I a applied for permit to buy a High Score 177 pellet gun. Treated like a criminal for no reason.

Well I escaped and will not return.
The handgun application sealed the deal when I turned 21.
I walked out on the interview. Got my VA address and was free at last.
Thanks be to God.
Now I have been a cheese head since 1976.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:42 AM
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Now I have been a cheese head since 1976.
Where, if it were up to Madison and Dane County we would be like NY, NJ and CA or worse. Thankfully, so far the rest of us poor slobs still vote and live free.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
I reckon ya'all need to load up the truck and head out yonder. Plenty of room down in the holler.

Where do ya think all your neighbors have gone? That is when Christie isn't blocking the bridges. That's how the Berlin wall got started.
Funny you should mention the Berlin Wall. There is a Berlin NJ!

I understand moving isn't easy but if you're near Pa just drive across. You can still work in NJ and the food and local culture is the same!
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Call me a wimp if you want.
I will comply and let someone else be the test case.
I wasn't going to reply but, nope, never. I'm legally allowed to own, and all I own are legal. I make sure any dealings I have are fully legal and will walk away if I feel something is amiss.
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:40 PM
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I wasn't going to reply but, nope, never. I'm legally allowed to own, and all I own are legal. I make sure any dealings I have are fully legal and will walk away if I feel something is amiss.
Yes
It's just the way it is.
Civil disobedience is not an option.
It's not like a gun violation in New Jersey is a misdemeanor.
Gun violations are taken very seriously in NJ and I am careful not to get even close to a violation.

For example, 15 rounds in a magazine are legal, but I limit myself to 10 round magazines.

Would really ruin my day if I got stopped or into an accident on the way to the range and a sixteenth round could somehow be crammed into a magazine advertised to hold only 15.
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:39 PM
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A million (or at least several thousands) man and woman march on Trenton of responsible gun owners will get their attention protesting, peaceably, the new laws. You would be excerising your 1A rights to peaceably assemble and petition your govnerment in support of your 2A rights. Then, other marchs and rallies in NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. The Left could not hide or sweep that much attention away.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:21 PM
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"An unjust law is NO law." (St. Augustine, 354-430) Penalties and consequences may attach to noncompliance, but there is manmade law and manmade law. EVERYTHING that was done in Hitler's Germany was 100% LEGAL.

Martin Luther King quoted the above and many other authorities in "Letter From The Birmingham Jail",1963 : "I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."

"Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust."

Of course this calls into question the whole notion of the proper authority of the state. And as a general rule our "public servants" don't like that one bit. No, siree.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:28 PM
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Legal for now....Cuomo did that ban in NY overnight... Never know what the communists in the northeast will do.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:33 PM
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Yes
It's just the way it is.
Civil disobedience is not an option.
It's not like a gun violation in New Jersey is a misdemeanor.
Gun violations are taken very seriously in NJ and I am careful not to get even close to a violation.

For example, 15 rounds in a magazine are legal, but I limit myself to 10 round magazines.

Would really ruin my day if I got stopped or into an accident on the way to the range and a sixteenth round could somehow be crammed into a magazine advertised to hold only 15.
Not to be harsh but this is a perfect example of being pro-gun and pro-2A being two totally different things
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:16 AM
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Not to be harsh but this is a perfect example of being pro-gun and pro-2A being two totally different things
This is rashsional fear of the reality we face. Law abiding responsible gun owners worry about the consequences of our actions - a criminal is not going to care about this stuff. And all this governmental nickel and dime regulation is done in the name of public safety that hasn't really made us all any safer, because the state and fed regulators haven't addressed the root cause or issues of the problem.
In a post above, I made a light hearted comment about a million man march on DC. It may be time for our community to SERIOUSLY think about such things. Peaceful demonstrations in major cities to express our frustration over the direction of gun regulations that do not accomplish anything.
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Old 11-28-2015, 03:47 PM
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With how virulent the anti-gun sentiment is in NJ, I doubt that 1/3rd of the population own guns. The national rate of 1/3rd is a balance of states where gun ownership is probably close to 100% and states like NJ, MA, MD, HI and some others where gun ownership is likely very low. I know from personal experience that when people are born and raised in an anti-gun area, and where the "mainstream" politicians are universally opposed to private gun ownership, the public accepts the anti-gun position as the normal or natural position. I hav relatives in NY (in the suburbs as well as NYC) who strongly believe that only the police and the military should be allowed to own guns. That the unarmed citizenry is preyed upon by armed thugs seems not to change their belief structure one iota. As I have stated on other threads, to these NY relatives I am the "crazy uncle" just for owning guns. The fact that I am an NRA member puts me, in their opinions, outside even the boundaries of sanity because it is fully accepted in their circles that the NRA is the enemy, the Republicans are evil, and they believe that they are superior in every way to the country bumpkins that live in the rest of the country.
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shell627 View Post
Could move to the USA,or a free state.
My girlfriend lives in NJ, and I live in PA. Without any hesitation she accepted the fact we're staying in PA when we get married. She wants her LTCF, and she's all ready practicing with my shield that she claimed is hers once we're married.

Especially after DC vs Heller there is no reason why any state should be anything other than constitutional or shall issue.
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:49 PM
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As long as New Jersey is controlled by the Demoncrats, you will see loads of anti 2A legislation. The major cities in the state are magnets for entitlement recipients, and they tend to vote to repay their benefactors.

Escaping the state is not that easy. Many will not leave until they sell their homes. Atlantic County has an unemployment rate that surpasses the national average. The rural community that I live in has a vacancy/foreclosure rate that is approaching 20%. My kids and I are ready to relocate, but I can't afford to relocate with a second property hanging over my head.

Something many don't realize is that NJ has imposed an 8% exit tax on any property owner that sells their property then leaves the state. The exit tax is levied on the sale of the property, and is withheld at closing.

It is not easy to flee this state.
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:01 PM
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As long as New Jersey is controlled by the Demoncrats, you will see loads of anti 2A legislation. The major cities in the state are magnets for entitlement recipients, and they tend to vote to repay their benefactors.

Escaping the state is not that easy. Many will not leave until they sell their homes. Atlantic County has an unemployment rate that surpasses the national average. The rural community that I live in has a vacancy/foreclosure rate that is approaching 20%. My kids and I are ready to relocate, but I can't afford to relocate with a second property hanging over my head.

Something many don't realize is that NJ has imposed an 8% exit tax on any property owner that sells their property then leaves the state. The exit tax is levied on the sale of the property, and is withheld at closing.

It is not easy to flee this state.
8%???
A friend of mine sold his house in Howell and moved to NC, he never mentioned the exit tax but why would he. He retired and moved the next month, his house sold in 2 weeks, and he vows never to return.
He's been on a gun buying spree since he got down there.
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:15 PM
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This thread reminds me of the woman that crossed over the line from Pa. Into N.J. and got the boots taken to here by this lousy state of New Jersey. Forgot what the outcome was. Also some guy that they screwed for possessing a flintlock pistol from 200 years ago!!! Unreal!!!! State is as bad as Ma.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:33 PM
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Something many don't realize is that NJ has imposed an 8% exit tax on any property owner that sells their property then leaves the state. The exit tax is levied on the sale of the property, and is withheld at closing.

It is not easy to flee this state.
How is that even legal? Is there some requirement that you tell them where you are going to live, and is there a time limit? Why can't you say are moving in with relatives or say you are going to be homeless and plan on staying at a shelter? Regardless, how can they tax you for choosing to live somewhere else. This sounds like what used to happen to Jews who wanted to leave The Soviet Union for Israel, to leave they had to forfeit their possessions to the state.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:00 AM
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It's 8.9% on property sold by non-residents - it's a form of capital gains tax. Complex to understand and not really working all that well.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:51 AM
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So if I decided to buy a vacation home in NJ, and then later sold it, I would be paying an 8.9% tax because I am not a resident of NJ? That's pretty outrageous. Of course, with the anti-gun climate in NJ I would not even consider buying anything there, let alone property. NJ won't even allow you to pump your own gas. Last year, while passing through that awful state on my way to NY to visit my elderly mother, I had to wait what seemed like forever at a gas station while the attendants were having some sort of dispute inside the office of the station.

I wonder how anyone who cares about the 2nd Amendment could tolerate living in NJ, or any of the states where gun ownership is looked at as just one step below being a terrorist. Especially when for many people, living in PA, which is much more gun friendly, is only a short drive away.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:12 AM
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So if I decided to buy a vacation home in NJ, and then later sold it, I would be paying an 8.9% tax because I am not a resident of NJ? That's pretty outrageous. Of course, with the anti-gun climate in NJ I would not even consider buying anything there, let alone property. NJ won't even allow you to pump your own gas. Last year, while passing through that awful state on my way to NY to visit my elderly mother, I had to wait what seemed like forever at a gas station while the attendants were having some sort of dispute inside the office of the station.

I wonder how anyone who cares about the 2nd Amendment could tolerate living in NJ, or any of the states where gun ownership is looked at as just one step below being a terrorist. Especially when for many people, living in PA, which is much more gun friendly, is only a short drive away.
I ask myself that very same question ever time I have to leave my edc at home, to drive into NJ to pick up my daughter. Lol frankly a big part of why the mother and I aren't together, is due to my refusale to move to that cesspool.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:22 AM
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The way I feel about NJ (and NY, MD, CA and a few other states) is how I used to feel about living in IL. Due to my job I could not reside in another state. Fortunately, by the time I was retired and able to consider leaving we saw the passage of concealed carry law here, and while not perfect, IL has become a fairly friendly state for firearms. I still hate IL, but now its just for the corruption, high taxes, and lack of hope for a better future. If I could sell my home without taking an enormous financial loss I would do so and move as quickly as possible. In the meantime, I can carry, own guns and for the most part have my 2nd Amendment rights respected.
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Old 12-01-2015, 01:57 PM
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Wasn't going to respond because these threads come up so often and I hear the same over and over, but sometimes you can't help yourself
Moving, while I agree to a large extent is great, is not feasible for many people and a quite simplistic solution to a bigger problem. Careers, finances, family, health reasons, etc, all factor in.
My MIL was living alone for the past 10 years and there was no way my wife was leaving her to fend for herself. Was I supposed to abandon her just so I could own 15rd mags? Some may have, but that's not in my DNA.
She recently passed, and now we're getting ready to leave NY. There's many reasons to leave, gun ownership is one of many, but not at the top of my list. If it were, I'd be moving to one of the Constitutional Carry States, as anything less is being "infringed".
I'll be moving to one of those "less infringed" states , and while not perfect(what state is?), sure to be better than where I am now.

I'm sure the OP has valid reasons, for him and his family, as to why he stays in NJ, and I respect that.

Ramble is done for today.
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:52 PM
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Go to Wikipedia and search "G. Gordon Liddy" He put the situation and action perfectly. Go ahead and read it.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:37 PM
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I lived the first 26 years in NJ and the next 36 in the great State of Florida. I'd "do a dime at Rahway" for something I do every day here. I left NJ with nothing and since that's what life there was worth, we're even. Joe
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:49 PM
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Another EX NJ resident. Moved to MT in 1979...never looked back.

I doubt that 10% of NJ residents are gun owners or pro gun. I'd bet it's more like 5% if even that high.

Don't miss their crazy gun laws.....I do miss the great Italian food though.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:06 PM
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Call me a wimp if you want.
I don't call people names.

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I will comply and let someone else be the test case.
Said all the "good Germans" when the NAZI party took over their country.

"I will not comply. I will not sit down. I will not shut up. I will not be disarmed. If you have a problem with that, YOU have a problem."

So far, it's still a free country. I would not stay somewhere liberty is unconstitutionally constrained, and I cannot understand those who would.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:10 PM
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Something many don't realize is that NJ has imposed an 8% exit tax on any property owner that sells their property then leaves the state. The exit tax is levied on the sale of the property, and is withheld at closing.
Burn the ******** down.* Let the state sue the insurance company.

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It is not easy to flee this state.
Sure it is. All you'd be leaving behind is stuff and servitude.

*(Hyperbole. I am not advocating the commission of a felony.)
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:23 AM
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Civil Disobedience....The US Constitution takes presidence over other laws...
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:51 AM
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Default Slight relaxation of concealed carry in NJ?

Apparently this past Friday, the governor and the Attorney General 's office made an administrative move to relax the carry permit system in NJ. It seems that 3 simple words are being added, implying that if there is a bona fide imminent threat or history of violence, in the realm of justifiable cause, the authorities are being authorized to issue a carry permit. This is on the heels of a woman protected by restraining order that was murdered by her ex boyfriend while waiting for a purchase permit that had exceeded the statutory limits for issuance. NJ is still a "may issue state", but it looks like a thaw.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:06 PM
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Apparently this past Friday, the governor and the Attorney General 's office made an administrative move to relax the carry permit system in NJ. It seems that 3 simple words are being added, implying that if there is a bona fide imminent threat or history of violence, in the realm of justifiable cause, the authorities are being authorized to issue a carry permit. This is on the heels of a woman protected by restraining order that was murdered by her ex boyfriend while waiting for a purchase permit that had exceeded the statutory limits for issuance. NJ is still a "may issue state", but it looks like a thaw.
New Jersey has some areas with a very high murder rate, but overall, the state is below the national average and the "safe" areas are way below the average.

Therefore, no thaw in New Jersey unless and until violent crime increases to the point that the anti gun crowd in the expensive suburbs feel a threat to their personal safety.
Not a rant, just the way it is.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:40 PM
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Its nice to see a little be of rational thinking enter the mind of NJ officials, but as long as they still see a gun as something too dangerous for law abiding citizens unless they, the government leaders, deem the citizen worthy of having an ability to protect oneself. Recent cases such as the licensed individual who crossed into NJ from PA and only avoided jail due to the uproar in the media, or the elderly professor who had an old flintlock (or maybe it was a matchlock) pistol in his glove compartment and was arrested shows that this state is still spitting on rather than upholding the 2nd Amendment. And in NJ, I do not believe that it is a partisan issue, it seems that both Republicans and Democrats are fine with leaving the general populace defenseless.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:41 PM
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@ Bushmaster,

Actually, a recent murder in Berlin has actually prompted this semi change. A woman in Berlin had a restraining order against a former boyfriend, and actually had paperwork in process to obtain a purchase permit. Sadly, the Berlin PD exceeded the statutory limits for acting on the application at the time she was murdered by the boyfriend. This blatant act has precipitated the current movement.

Sadly, the NJ Constitution (of 1947, I believe) doesn't give citizens of the state the legal right to self defense. A person in NJ must exhaust all avenues of retreat before they can resort to force in order to protect themselves. Until that right is recognized, any movement in the thawing of the anti gun legislation is a hollow shell of progress. The movement introduced by Christie and the AG's office is a mere token, since under what they propose, a person would have to qualify for a restraining order, and currently, having been a victim of domestic violence is considered an automatic disqualifier for a purchase permit.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:51 AM
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"and currently, having been a victim of domestic violence is considered an automatic disqualifier for a purchase permit." Is this a typo? I would think in a sane world it would be an immediate qualifier. But then again, this is NJ we are talking about.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:54 AM
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I heard that NJ will steal some of your money if you sell property there and move out of that state.
Is that true? If so my old home state is way worse than when I left.
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:02 PM
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@ Vito,

That is not a typo. According to several lawyers that I know, if you have been a victim of domestic violence, that is seen as an automatic disqualifier. Additionally, on the purchase permit application if you state that you want the firearm for self defense, that has been a disqualifier as far back as I can remember ... going to the mid 1970s.

Yes, apparently NJ has imposed an exit tax on real estate sold if you are leaving the state. It is supposed to be collected at closing. I discovered this when I started to look for property out of state. I have heard mixed comments about this. Some have said that the exit tax is aggressively enforced at closing, others have said that it isn't collected.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:08 PM
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Default Radio free state

Here in radio free Pennsylvania we can actually read and comprehend the Constitution of the United States of America, it's amendments and Bill of Rights. Starting with the politicians and following with the citizens and wanna bees, wake up, read it and go to work. Your play book for the day.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:55 PM
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@ Vito,

That is not a typo. According to several lawyers that I know, if you have been a victim of domestic violence, that is seen as an automatic disqualifier. Additionally, on the purchase permit application if you state that you want the firearm for self defense, that has been a disqualifier as far back as I can remember ... going to the mid 1970s.

Yes, apparently NJ has imposed an exit tax on real estate sold if you are leaving the state. It is supposed to be collected at closing. I discovered this when I started to look for property out of state. I have heard mixed comments about this. Some have said that the exit tax is aggressively enforced at closing, others have said that it isn't collected.
The City of Yonkers has the same tax on sales, it used to be 3% of the sales price but last I heard was 1%.
I guess the politicians, with all the people fleeing NJ and NY, think it's a boondoggle for the municipalities.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:18 PM
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Every time I read threads like this one, it seems as if I'm reading about a foreign country. How can the laws in regards to the 2nd Amendment and simple self defense be so radically different?

My sympathies to all y'all that live under the yoke of the NJ government. I'm thankful that I have lived nearly my whole life under different circumstances. NJ seems to be different from NY or CA. The size of the state is so small, that a longer commute (from PA) to work would be something to deeply consider. Costly in the short term, to be sure. In the long term tho, savings in future taxes (PA vs NJ) might recoup some of the "thievery" being practiced with their exit tax.

Keep fighting for changes as you can up there. Even a small victory is a good thing! All of us need to take NJ laws to heart. If the rest of us relax our vigilance, we could be in the same boat.
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