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Old 02-20-2016, 02:30 AM
dlombard dlombard is offline
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Default Current status of National Reciprocity Bills

Howdy,

I'm still new here so my apologies if this post could use some quality control, but I am curious about this as my own knowledge about these things continues to expand. I saw something earlier today that reminded me that, at some point in the past, I'd read something about "national reciprocity." I'd forgotten about this since, but was reminded of it today.

I did some searching around and after skipping past websites with basic information on the law on a state-by-state basis (not what I was interested in), I finally found something that suggested new legislation for a national reciprocity law to federalize a statute that would render valid out of state CCW permits so long as you aren't a citizen precluded from CCW eligibility in your own state (such as being a felon of course).

Anyway, I found the link at https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...ty-legislation which is Great to read but I checked the House of Representatives bills at congress.gov and these haven't moved an inch. What are the chances this is going to go forward? I wanted to try and sign the petition or write my lawmakers, but the NRA-ILA's own website 404s. In reality, I have no hope of my Reps or Senators voting for such a thing (I'm represented by two, horrifically anti-2nd amendment Senators and one Representative). But I'd love to help or contribute in some way (whether that is with contributions to the any lawsuits pending, underway or about to be filed) or being among the chorus of voices advocating for this law.

I feel those of us in jurisdictions where we are Essentially barred the right to protect our lives outside of our own home are sitting ducks for the next time someone escapes custody (or is released in yet another prisoner population reduction (early release) program). It shouldn't be up to the Chief of Police or the County Sheriff to personally review and approve of every person that wants to be able to carry in defense of their lives when they least expected to have to defend it. A law like this TOO important to ignore and allow to die on the vine, as it were. There's a majority in Congress now of people you'd think would be friendly to legislation by this, but I have seen no movement on this in over a year.

What's it going to take to get some action on this?
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Old 02-20-2016, 06:45 PM
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An act of Congress !!
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:43 AM
dlombard dlombard is offline
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Well, when I think about it, I suppose that make sense. Because the problem is of course the power of veto and the extremely difficult task of securing enough people (in the Senate?) to overturn such a thing. I guess it would be less difficult to see if we find someone more cooperative in The White House first.
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:01 AM
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The problem with a national reciprocity bill is that it will come with strings attached, among them most likely would be federally mandated testing and training requirements.

We have IL, which has among the most strict and cumbersome requirements bordering IN, which has no training requirements. Do you think IL will let the Feds force them to honor IN without some say into their process?

OH does not honor any out of state license that does not have equivalent training and background check procedures.

How about states that do not require permits? Will they be required to issue them?

It is a state issue, not a federal issue.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:40 PM
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It ain't happening under the current administration.
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Old 02-27-2016, 08:35 PM
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The right to keep and bear (carry) arms shall not be infringed.

If the Feds were the least bit interested in protecting my right to carry they would arrest and prosecute state officials for infringing upon my Constitutional rights with fees and licensing schemes.

No. All the Feds are interested in is getting control and meddling with fees and licensing schemes, and infringing upon all. No thanks.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:26 PM
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Rubio and Cruz profess to be very strong advocates of the 2nd Amendment - it appears that they have been off the reservation when it comes to a reciprocity bill. When the pending bill stalled in the house they certainly could have introduced a like same version in the senate.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:42 PM
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Passing such legislation right now would be a waste of time. Obama would just veto it and there aren't enough votes to overturn his veto. IMO: There will be a much better chance of passage in 2017.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:59 PM
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Obama will just veto it has been the stock Republican Leadership answer to just about EVERY issue and nothing is getting done. Cruz and Rubio are both in a position to begin something in the senate and while they claim to be strong supporters of the 2nd amendment neither has introduced any legislation. Easy to say you are for something, harder to actually do something to support your claimed beliefs. Call me a skeptic.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:01 PM
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johngalt is correct, Until all states have "uniform training requirements", many states will be against any National bill. I'm from IL also, and we have mandatory 16 hours of training, of which many prior training will be recognized for 8 hours, such as: Military Service, Hunter safety certification, but there will still be 8 hours including actual shooting qualifications. After having been an instructor, and teaching new shooters on and off for over 30 years, I wonder if 16 hours is enough. If you have the right attitude it usually is, but at least in IL an Instructor can refuse to issue a certification of completion for failure of completion which can include a appropriate attitude, NOT "shoot them all and let God sort them out" attitude which I have witnessed.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:15 PM
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This is never going to happen under any administration. It falls under the arena of "state's rights" IMHO. Many states take issue with the Federal government mandating these types of issues.
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Old 03-10-2016, 09:40 PM
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I have read the 2nd many times and I can't find anywhere in it about so many hours of training, getting a permit, or any of the other government mandated money makers!!!
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:18 PM
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I really do NOT want the federal government involved in this!!!!

It would get so messed up with silly little details and requirements that no one would like it. Most people wouldn't "qualify", etc.

Let the individual states work it out......they will!!!
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Old 04-04-2016, 02:28 AM
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To me this falls under the same ruling as the one legalizing gay marriage held anywhere to be legal everywhere, I believe this can be called reciprocity . Not all states have same drivers license regulations but any DL is good in every state. (reciprocity?) My Fl tags are bought and used by different rules than some states but are legal anywhere (there's that R word again)

Why are gun rules different? For some reason no one mentions the 14th amendment anymore (equal protection)

For those who suggest the courts would like to keep state's rights the SCOTUS has been having a field day using the Supremacy Clause to basically destroy what State's rights are left.
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:22 PM
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Watchdog, do you collect dead horses? I've never seen any of those before!
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:26 AM
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To the original post DLombard, your simplest solution would be to get out of LA County and go to Orange or San Bernardino county. The sheriffs are much more friendly there. And LA County will still have to honor your permit while you are there.

Or just wait and see how the Peralta case ends up. That decision should be some time this year.
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:31 PM
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80 co-sponsors
Gun Owners of America: National Reciprocity Bill Has More Than 80 Co-Sponsors
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:52 PM
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One might think that this issue was settled by the "full faith" provision in the US Constitution, requiring every state to recognize the lawful acts of other states (such as marriage licenses, drivers licenses, divorce decrees, child custody orders, etc, etc, etc).

But that would require all of the states and territories to actually pay attention to the US Constitution, which is something that has never happened.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:00 PM
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Last week I read that there were 200 co-sponsors of the House bill and some co-sponsors in the Senate (no number stated). The bills have been referred to committees in both houses. Whether there will be hearings or just a mark up of the bills to get them to a vote is not clear. The exec is highly likely to sign them upon passage.

However, the legislation is not a panacea. Within the bills is language that requires the permit holder to abide by the laws of states not just his or her state when carrying in any state. So, in the anti 2A states they can pass laws in response to the reciprocity legislation that make CC practically impossible.

I imagine that NY, NJ, MA, CT, WA, CA, OR, MD would enact laws that set requirements that none of us will be able to meet. Unless the national act deals with that I see it as a political move not a practical move.

I have both PA and AZ licenses. Between the two I can pretty much visit any state except for the ones mentioned above in the bowl of alphabet soup.
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:36 PM
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MA already has training requirements.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
Last week I read that there were 200 co-sponsors of the House bill and some co-sponsors in the Senate (no number stated). The bills have been referred to committees in both houses. Whether there will be hearings or just a mark up of the bills to get them to a vote is not clear. The exec is highly likely to sign them upon passage.

However, the legislation is not a panacea. Within the bills is language that requires the permit holder to abide by the laws of states not just his or her state when carrying in any state. So, in the anti 2A states they can pass laws in response to the reciprocity legislation that make CC practically impossible.

I imagine that NY, NJ, MA, CT, WA, CA, OR, MD would enact laws that set requirements that none of us will be able to meet. Unless the national act deals with that I see it as a political move not a practical move.

I have both PA and AZ licenses. Between the two I can pretty much visit any state except for the ones mentioned above in the bowl of alphabet soup.
I hear you on that one. But here's something to consider as well. Whatever carry restrictions that NY, NJ, CA pass so as to muck up National Carry folks, those restrictions will apply to the people in those anti-states *with* active permits. Those people tend to be the most powerful and connected folks, and they will not stand for their own permits to be made null and void in their own state.

What I see happening is this: *If* a version of National Carry passes both House and Senate (this is a big 'If', because I've read that we don't quite have enough Dems in the Senate to get it passed), the president will sign it into law. The very next day, NY and NJ and CA will all file lawsuits, and defy the law. They will announce that anyone caught carrying a gun from out of state will be arrested at gunpoint by police, and taken to jail.

The local circuits will most likely uphold the lawsuits, and it will eventually go to SCOTUS. By that time, we *might* have a 6-3 Conservative majority, and the law will be upheld.

Last edited by American1776; 07-10-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpafr012 View Post
MA already has training requirements.
The majority of states have training requirements fo a CCP. I am in PA, which does not require training, but that would have no affect on my right to carry in say New Jersey, which would have to honor my permit.

NJ has outlawed HP bullets, so I could bot HPs in my gun. NY could ban semi automatic pistols so I would have to buy and carry a revolver. The federal bills do not deal with such things so antis in state governments could come up with state laws that would effectively limit the practicality of carrying while still required to honor another state's permit to carry.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:15 AM
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In NY, when I got my CC license, there was no training requirement in the county I got my license in. That training is now, in my county quite broad. My wife just got an application for her handgun license, It states that she must show proof of knowledge of safe handling of a firearm by producing one of the following: hunting license, hunter safety certificate, pistol safety course or military DD214 or current military ID.
That's pretty broad and quite simple, and this is Madison County, in NY state.
I wonder if other states would accept such "training". Right now, NY does not accept any other state's licenses for a handgun in NY.
In NY each county sets the standards, every adjoining county to us requires specifically a "Pistol Safety Course certificate".
My CC license is valid throughout the state, except in New York City and vacinity.
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