Has 3-day waiting period been modified?

[p23185]

When purchasing a firearm from a licensed FFL, if the FFL does not hear back from NICS in the positive or negative, after three business days, then they are legally able to transfer that firearm to that person.

From https://www.atf.gov/file/61086/download

If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after 3 business
days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not
to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm,
the FFL must note “no resolution was provided within 3 business days” on line 19d of the
ATF Form 4473. (Please refer to pages 24 and 25 of the FBI NICS FFL User Manual.)

I am being told by a licensed AZ FFL firearms retail establishment that this law has been changed and they NO LONGER will sell you the firearm if NICS does NOT respond within this waiting period (I believe it is clarified to mean your State's open business days if that differs from Federal holidays)

I know at varying times in recent history one political party has constantly claimed this 3-day period was a loophole that needed to be fixed by extending it to 21 or 30 days.

Also I realize this has just recently occurred -

On Tuesday, June 21, the Delaware Senate passed an amended version of House Bill 325, introduced by state representative Edward Osienski (D-24), which goes beyond federal law and extends the 3-day transfer period for NICS delays to 25 days. Unfortunately on the same day, the Delaware House of Representatives concurred on House Bill 325, and Governor Jack Markell (D) signed the measure into law shortly after its passage.

MY QUESTION - HAS THE THREE DAY NO RESPONSE LAW ACTUALLY BEEN AMENDED OR IS THIS RETAILER JUST STATING A NEW COMPANY POLICY? While I have not checked AZ law I am fairly confident my state who have some of the most liberty loving gun laws in all 50 states does not have a longer time frame than the Fed Brady Law

[handejector]

Originally Posted by p23185

From https://www.atf.gov/file/61086/download

If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after 3 business
days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not
to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm,
the FFL must note “no resolution was provided within 3 business days” on line 19d of the
ATF Form 4473. (Please refer to pages 24 and 25 of the FBI NICS FFL User Manual.)

I am being told by a licensed AZ FFL firearms retail establishment that this law has been changed and they NO LONGER will sell you the firearm if NICS does NOT respond within this waiting period

It sounds like company policy to me.
I have an 01 FFL.
I have not been notified of any change by ATF.

[johngalt]

If a delay goes beyond 3 days, the FFL dealer transfers the gun, then later a denial comes back, are there any consequences for the FFL? I assume the purchaser would have the responsibility to return or otherwise get it out of their possession.

[GrayGhost99]

I've sold guns for over 20 years. I currently work for a guy will not transfer without a proceed. His store. His policy. I respect it. We are a small community and he doesn't want to ruin his own reputation.
I've worked other places that do transfer. I've seen atf retrieve guns. Atf send local police to retrieve guns. There must be a method as to what the denial is to determine who gets it back.
I've seen guns confiscated and guns returned to the store. Must be a method but the sure don't tell the dealer.
Worst is when you get a gun that was new and it is returned to you a month later used from deer and the sheriff is demanding a refund in full for the poor guy who got denied who also was his brother in law

[Ascension]

Originally Posted by johngalt

If a delay goes beyond 3 days, the FFL dealer transfers the gun, then later a denial comes back, are there any consequences for the FFL? I assume the purchaser would have the responsibility to return or otherwise get it out of their possession.

Yes they are a and many things have changed as of a couple weeks back.
I have a 36 page book printed at the shop for the "new" NICS E check system.
Servers were suddenly moved to DOJ internal servers a couple weeks back and for us as a FFl it has been a nightmare. my coworker logs in it logs him in as me under my User ID not his. We try to do an Echeck on line background check get access denied refer to FFl liaison messages. Call the liaison over and over still not fixed. Call in and if you get a further review count on at the least 45 min delay on hold if your lucky as we have had 2 go over 2 HOURS!!
Had one liaison begin telling me how it would be better once they get the bugs out and how they are linking a number of data basses. Sounds to me like they may be implementing the changes that were not passed by Congress on the down-lo through DOJ.
That is speculation on my part what is not however is we have had several denials of folk in my area who have valid conceal carry permits which is unheard of here.
Also had 2 denials the day AFTER the transfer date. Lucky for us both weapons were never transferd but if they had been then we would have had to fax the 4473 to ATF etc.
BIG changes over the last 3 weeks on all of this and not a PEEP out in the media even on the conservative sites.
Guys we need to be watching this one CLOSELY!!!
I may call up a couple of our US House reps here in Alabama and have a chat over all this this week.

[p23185]

Originally Posted by johngalt

If a delay goes beyond 3 days, the FFL dealer transfers the gun, then later a denial comes back, are there any consequences for the FFL? I assume the purchaser would have the responsibility to return or otherwise get it out of their possession.

I believe your responsibility to "get it out of your possession" would ONLY APPLY if you are currently a "prohibited posseser" - I just had a denial and my attorney guarantees me I am not such a person. NICS makes mistakes.

It appears impossible to challenge the denial after Obama's Administration reassigned the entire appeals staff last January 2016 (NRA-ILA posted the news as did other firearm organizations). So I would argue my DUE PROCESS rights have been abridged.

I talked to the store again and YES it is a corporate policy to not hand over the weapon after the three days are up and no notice to proceed or deny, and I can find no FED or State regulation that has changed the 3 day delay rule.

[rct269]

And then there are those occasions when sheer panic reigns supreme!!

I once went to my favorite transfer agent FFL to pick up a new arrival. I had (successfully) picked up twenty or so new arrivals in the past. The approval was not forthcoming within the usual (instantly) time frame. The FFL knew I lived an hour and a half away---also that I had better things to do with my time than sit and do nothing----also that the approval would be forthcoming sooner or later----and sent me on my way. I left---with the gun----without the approval.

I get home. The Boss Lady says I need to call (the FFL)----as soon as I come in the door!!

I call. "How soon can you get back here?" "Huh?!" "That gun came up stolen----they tell the local law about it at the same time they tell us----we can stall the local law for awhile-------------but they're on the way to pick it up-------------NOW!!"

Oops!!

Ralph Tremaine

[e3mrk]

There are a lot of People that have no idea what it is They are doing.
I had a Moron at Walmart tell Me that I had to take a Hunters safety course before I could get a Range Pass.
It just amazes Me the People that are allowed to sell Guns and Ammo.

[Lee's Landing Billy]

I THINK this is in response to the moron here who did the shooting at the church in Charleston. He bought the gun he used and got it after the 3 day wait. Naturally, everybody is up in arms to close this "loophole". He should not have gotten it but do you think the government is taking the blame? The store followed the policy set forth, so now they are after a "new policy" after the government dropped the ball. In this state, if you have a CWP, you buy and walk. The dealer then sits on the paperwork until somebody from a government office inquires about it. Also, if you have a gun that was manufactured before 1968 there is nowhere to even start a search. I have been checked twice about guns I had. The ATF went to the manufacturer then the distributor then to the stocking dealer then to me. If it is made before 1968 the odds of tracking it are almost 0. One of the guns I had was reported stolen and was cleared. The other one was used in an armed robbery-murder in Cleveland Ohio. I think this whacko in Charleston is the impetus for this .

[Smitty357]

This could go all kinds of ways. However here in La. If u have a CCL that was issued before a certain month and year. U can show the CCL when u purchase a firearm from an FFL and things go smooth and pretty instantly.....now heres the kicker. I know 2 guys who are always delayed 3 days when they purchase a firearm from an FFL. But now since they have their CCL, they bypass the 3 day delay andbget their firear instantly......odd, I guess .

[Hoov]

This is a retailer covering their a%$. Think Academy.