The Latest North Carolina Second Amendment News

[Watchdog]

Media Source: WSOC-TV

"A state representative wants to make North Carolina a constitutional carry state, which would allow people to carry a gun without a concealed carry permit.

State Rep. Larry Pittman, (R) Cabarrus County, introduced House Bill 69 Wednesday in the Legislature.

[READ: House Bill 69]

People would still need to a background check in order to get a gun, but they would not need to take a training class.
If the bill becomes law, North Carolina would join 11 other states that don’t require concealed carry permits to carry a concealed handgun."

So...we'll see what happens with this one.

North Carolina CHLs would continue to be issued with the same qualification guidelines and fees in place, in order for North Carolina gun owners to take advantage of state-to-state concealed carry reciprocity.

Gun owners from other states still have to have a concealed carry license in order to carry concealed in this state, by the way. Even those who live in a constitutional carry state. To the best of my knowledge, there is no legislation pending that addresses that issue yet.

[snuffy51]

A concealed carry permit will still be required if anybody goes to just about any state. I read an article on Ammoland. Com yesterday about the progress of the Fed's right to carry bill, and the only thing I got out of it is the now "Highly Restrictive States" are still going to be a problem, or make things worse and more complicated for everyone. I do love it "Way Down Here In Dixie". Never been farther north than Kentucky, west than East Texas, and east of Myrtle Beach. Still can't think of any reason to do otherwise. Whatever happens, I will always keep a carry permit, just to be safe.

[Ballistic147]

Either way I would still keep my CHL current for the simple fact I can buy a gun anytime I want without having to get a pistol purchase permit. That's really nice when you happen across a gun you just have to have. While I don't travel out of state very often having the permit keeps me legal there too.

[les.b]

West Virginia joined other states last year in passing constitutional carry, and despite the predictions of doom and gloom from the naysayers, I am unaware of anything much bad happening. Most folks who wanted to carry concealed (it was always legal to open Carey) already had a permit, and most of them are keeping them, because they are good in something like 38 states. Also, our permit serves as an alternative to NICS when we buy a gun...

But I would never have believed that the legislature would pass the law. Bloomberg spent a bunch of money here trying to defeat it, and I think that may have actually helped pass it!!! Out of state money has always been pretty unpopular here. The governor vetoed it, and the legislature actually overrode his veto. Just goes to show that you never know!!!

After all, our State motto is: "Montani semper liberi"... Mountaineers are Always Free!!!!

Best Regards, Les

[snuffy51]

In Tennessee, all you have to do is pass a backround check to purchase a firearm, then take the 8 hour classroom course and pass the test, score 70% in range qualification, 50 rounds, to get a carry permit. Our Legislature has tried to pass Constitutional Carry each session for the last several years. The Senate has passed it a few times, but it ended up dying in the House due a few Reps. from the few densely populated, progressive metro districts. I think some of them lost this last election, so maybe it can happen this year, but I will always keep a permit, to be safe if I go out of state. I eat breakfast with all the other old farts most weekday mornings in Byhalia Mississippi, which is a Constitutional open carry state, but still requires a permit for concealed carry. I guess I'm carrying concealed if I wear a jacket when it's cool. My Mississippi friends can't carry when they come up here unless they have a concealed permit, Tennessee requires a CC permit to carry open, for now anyway.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by snuffy51

A concealed carry permit will still be required if anybody goes to just about any state.

That's what I said.

Originally Posted by snuffy51

I read an article on Ammoland. Com yesterday about the progress of the Fed's right to carry bill, and the only thing I got out of it is the now "Highly Restrictive States" are still going to be a problem, or make things worse and more complicated for everyone.

Let's be clear: This has nothing to do with any federal bill. Or anything else federal. And it has nothing to do with other states making anything worse.

This is a North Carolina state initiative which doesn't affect other states and isn't dependent on anything done by the feds or any other state.

All that said, a lot of people, including gun owners I've talked to, aren't fully on board with this bill, because one of the things allowable in the bill is that it would make it legal for 18-year-olds to carry concealed without any sort of instruction, training, or anything else. I'm not convinced that's a good idea.

[WCCPHD]

Originally Posted by Watchdog

That's what I said.



Let's be clear: This has nothing to do with any federal bill. Or anything else federal. And it has nothing to do with other states making anything worse.

This is a North Carolina state initiative which doesn't affect other states and isn't dependent on anything done by the feds or any other state.

All that said, a lot of people, including gun owners I've talked to, aren't fully on board with this bill, because one of the things allowable in the bill is that it would make it legal for 18-year-olds to carry concealed without any sort of instruction, training, or anything else. I'm not convinced that's a good idea.

This would create another quirk in NC law. One has to be 21 to purchase a handgun per federal law so an 18 year old cannot purchase a handgun, but NC law allows a person 18 or older to possess a handgun. NC law also allows a person to be certified as a law enforcement officer at 20 years of age. So a person can become a certified and sworn law enforcement officer capable of making arrests but this same person cannot legally purchase a handgun to carry as a law enforcement officer.

[Ballistic147]

Originally Posted by WCCPHD

This would create another quirk in NC law. One has to be 21 to purchase a handgun per federal law so an 18 year old cannot purchase a handgun, but NC law allows a person 18 or older to possess a handgun. NC law also allows a person to be certified as a law enforcement officer at 20 years of age. So a person can become a certified and sworn law enforcement officer capable of making arrests but this same person cannot legally purchase a handgun to carry as a law enforcement officer.

Current NC law allows someone 18 years old to purchase a handgun from an individual providing their local sheriff will sign off on the pistol purchase permit. However they can't purchase one from a licensed dealer even with the PPP.

To make it even more complicated, anyone under 21 can't purchase pistol ammo but they can purchase rifle ammo??? My son who is now 22 used to buy 9mm ammo for his "9mm AR" back a few years ago. As long as it was for a rifle they would sell it to him.

As far as constitutional carry goes, I would much prefer we changed the NC Constitution to be more 2A friendly. In the current state it reads:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

If they would remove that last sentence in red I think that would be a much bigger step for the 2A folks than constitutional carry.

[WCCPHD]

Originally Posted by Ballistic147

Current NC law allows someone 18 years old to purchase a handgun from an individual providing their local sheriff will sign off on the pistol purchase permit. However they can't purchase one from a licensed dealer even with the PPP.

To make it even more complicated, anyone under 21 can't purchase pistol ammo but they can purchase rifle ammo??? My son who is now 22 used to buy 9mm ammo for his "9mm AR" back a few years ago. As long as it was for a rifle they would sell it to him.

As far as constitutional carry goes, I would much prefer we changed the NC Constitution to be more 2A friendly. In the current state it reads:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

If they would remove that last sentence in red I think that would be a much bigger step for the 2A folks than constitutional carry.

I agree in principle but not in practice. Changing the constitution is always a tricky business, often akin to opening Pandora's Box. Once open things get in that one does not want in and things escape that should never see the light of day. If the "powers that be" get too comfortable with changing the constitution now they will see no issue when the pendulum swings back the other way. And, unfortunately history teaches that the pendulum will continue to swing.

[HeyJoe]

Originally Posted by WCCPHD

I agree in principle but not in practice. Changing the constitution is always a tricky business, often akin to opening Pandora's Box. Once open things get in that one does not want in and things escape that should never see the light of day. If the "powers that be" get too comfortable with changing the constitution now they will see no issue when the pendulum swings back the other way. And, unfortunately history teaches that the pendulum will continue to swing.

which is why eliminating the filibuster would be a long term disaster

[BB57]

Originally Posted by WCCPHD

This would create another quirk in NC law. One has to be 21 to purchase a handgun per federal law so an 18 year old cannot purchase a handgun, but NC law allows a person 18 or older to possess a handgun. NC law also allows a person to be certified as a law enforcement officer at 20 years of age. So a person can become a certified and sworn law enforcement officer capable of making arrests but this same person cannot legally purchase a handgun to carry as a law enforcement officer.

The same issue existed in SD back in the day (and is coincidentally also considering a constitutional carry bill as well speak). I possessed a handgun at age 18, but could not purchase a handgun or get a concealed carry permit. However I also worked as an LEO while attending college prior to turning age 21.

It was an interesting situation as I could potentially arrest a 20 year old for carrying a loaded handgun in his vehicle (which in SD was considered to be concealed), while I was also age 20 and carrying my handgun equally concealed in my patrol vehicle.

[BB57]

Originally Posted by Watchdog

That's what I said.



Let's be clear: This has nothing to do with any federal bill. Or anything else federal. And it has nothing to do with other states making anything worse.

This is a North Carolina state initiative which doesn't affect other states and isn't dependent on anything done by the feds or any other state.

All that said, a lot of people, including gun owners I've talked to, aren't fully on board with this bill, because one of the things allowable in the bill is that it would make it legal for 18-year-olds to carry concealed without any sort of instruction, training, or anything else. I'm not convinced that's a good idea.

I agree with you on the training issue.

I was raised on a ranch in South Dakota and firearms, including handguns, were just tools used on the ranch on a daily basis. My grade school class mates (in the early to mid 1970s) were also rural kids who if they did not live on a ranch, spent time on one, had parents who actively shot, hunted, etc.

As result, all of us were exposed to the basics of firearms safety from a long age and most of us were shooting .22 LR rifles by the age of somewhere between 6 and 8. Many of us were carrying handguns on tractors by age 12 or so while mowing, raking, etc because it was more practical and safer than carrying a rifle.

Most of us at one time or another in grades 1-4 brought a new or new to us .22LR rifle to school for show and tell. No one freaked out, no one got shot.

Most of us took a hunter safety course at age 12 as a pre-requisite for a big game license, and that course was taught after school, in school, with firearms brought to school for that purpose. And again, no one got shot.

A 4" folding knife on our belt or in a pocket was pretty much standard school attire, and despite our fair share of play ground fights, no one ever got cut. If anyone had tried to pull knife in a fight, they'd have gotten the **** beat out of them by the bystanders for violating what was a very rigid code of ethics.

In short, in addition to having firearms safety training (formal and informal) at a young age, we also had responsibilities in our daily lives that resulted in a strong sense of personally responsibility.

I believe that is vital as while people today like to talk about their "rights", many (most?) don't seem to want to mention, let alone talk about the commensurate responsibilities that come with those rights. They regard their rights as "God given" but then seem to be more than willing to to ignore or reject away all the other "God given" expectations for personal conduct, morality, ethics and personal responsibility.

One of the fundamental tenets of western civilization is that right and responsibilities go hand in hand. Whenever you have one without the other you have some form of abuse or excess, and people tend to forget that their rights stop at exactly the point someone else's right become infringed.

----

Now... I can't fix the mess we've created, but I can certainly support the need for adequate training and education to ensure that an individual who is going to conceal carry a handgun has the knowledge to do so responsibly.

I don't think having to sit through 4 hours of firearms safety, 4 hours of training on the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force, or having to demonstrate safe gun handling and some modicum of marksmanship in a live fire qualification course is a bad idea. I also don't think it creates a barrier that infringes on our second amendment rights (if you can't manage that, open carry is still an option).

----

An as others have said, I'll certainly maintain my permit as it allows reciprocity with nearly all the states i travel to, it meets the requirements of the Brady bill which eliminates the need for NICS checks when you purchase a firearm (and all the system outages and over loads that can result in a "delay"), and it eliminates the need to get a $5 pistol permit and wait a week while the Sheriff's office processes it every time you want to buy a handgun (although in NC you can get up to 5 permits at one time and they are good for 5 years).

[elm_creek_smith]

Originally Posted by Watchdog

Gun owners from other states still have to have a concealed carry license in order to carry concealed in this state, by the way. Even those who live in a constitutional carry state. To the best of my knowledge, there is no legislation pending that addresses that issue yet.

Oklahoma accepts handgun carry licenses from any state as well as honoring constitutional carry rights from those states that have passed such laws. For gun carriers from constitutional carry states, they have to have state-issued resident identification. North Carolina could do that, too.