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Old 03-27-2018, 07:20 AM
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Default sweeping gun-confiscation bill moving fast in Maryland legislature

Friends,

Any gun collector in Maryland should take immediate action on dangerous legislation that is currently moving forward in the Maryland legislature. Some version of this legislation is likely to be approved by April 9, 2018, but the details of the language are still in flux.

I am attaching testimony that I presented (on my own behalf) to the Judicial Proceedings of the Maryland Senate on March 23, in opposition to the bill, House Bill 1302. HB 1302 already passed the Maryland House of Delegates and now awaiting action in the Maryland Senate. The version that passed the House, currently before the Senate committee, is attached.

Here's the short version: Under HB 1302 as it passed the House of Delegates, sheriff's deputies can show up at your door and seize your entire gun collection, based on an order issued by any district judge without any form of advance notice to you ("ex parte"), on the basis of a petition filed by a family member, house mate, law enforcement officer, or "any other interested person" (meaning, anyone at all), on the belief that there are "reasonable grounds" to think that you pose a danger of injuring yourself or another person.

Oh, so you think whoever filed the petition was motivated by malice (maybe you had a political argument), or is subjective, or is deluded? You can tell that to a judge -- later. But right now, turn over all your firearms to law enforcement (it is a criminal offense to fail to do so). If the judge later sees things you way, maybe you will see them again, some day -- if you can pry them loose from the lockers at your local police station (you might have to sue the local government).

Some people have proposed revising the bill to allow "only" law enforcement or family members (broadly defined) to file such "extreme risk prevention" petitions. This would lessen, but certainly not remove, the potential for abuse. There are, regrettably, more than a few cases in which gun owners or gun collectors have adult children, perhaps living elsewhere, or spouses, perhaps estranged, who are themselves afflicted with mental disorders, drug habits, or what have you. A gun owner or gun collector should not be forced to suffer great economic or emotional harm, by abrupt confiscation of valued property, based on a petition filed by a family member or housemate who might be deluded or malicious. Nor should a gun collector be made vulnerable to coercive manipulation by the threat of such an unfounded petition.

Please note: This bill is a far cry from the type of "gun violence restraining order" that the NRA recently endorsed in principle. Indeed, an NRA representative testified in opposition to HB 1302 at the same March 23 hearing at which I presented my attached testimony.

A very important decider on the final shape of the bill will be Senator Robert (Bobby) Zirkin, the Judicial Proceedings Committee chairman. Senator Zirkin is a Democrat who represents the 11th Senate district (part of Baltimore County, north of Baltimore). Politely share your concerns:

[email protected]
301-858-3131

The listing of the full membership of the committee -- seven Democrats, four Republicans -- within links to their contact information, is available here.

Again, time is short -- a version of this legislation is very likely to receive final legislative approval by April 9, which is the end of the session.

I am happy to address any questions, by email or private message.

Douglas Johnson
SWCA No. 2404
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Testimony of Douglas Johnson on HB 1302.pdf (72.8 KB, 55 views)
File Type: pdf HB 1302 as House passed.pdf (256.7 KB, 73 views)

Last edited by ddeanjohnson; 03-27-2018 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Fixed typo.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:21 AM
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Default Constitutional Issues

As offered here, this change in the law has significant 4th Amendment issues and may eventually be found to be unconstitutional on the 4th, rather than the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:32 PM
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Default 4th Amendment

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Originally Posted by federali View Post
As offered here, this change in the law has significant 4th Amendment issues and may eventually be found to be unconstitutional on the 4th, rather than the 2nd Amendment.
I agree that could happen. But many Democrat-appointed judges are highly result-oriented on gun-related issues (among others), and might disregard 4th Amendment infringements in this context that they would never tolerate in some other context. Most of the federal circuit courts of appeals are currently dominated by majorities of Democrat-appointed judges.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:37 PM
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Default CONFISCATION???

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. I predict a BIG increase in lost firearms. Be careful while out boating.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:14 PM
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The number one reason I left Maryland for West Virginia!
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:17 PM
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There should be a federal law that makes false reporting a mandatory 10 year prison sentence upon conviction. No exceptions, whether family, medical, neighbor, or even police. False report go to prison for 10 years.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:18 PM
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NJ is running something through the pipeline as well
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:42 PM
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Default Update

The Maryland bill, HB 1302, "Extreme Risk Protective Orders," was approved today by the Maryland Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee. Full Senate approval is expected on April 5, with final legislative action likely within days after that. So far, our side has achieved only minor modifications, that do not really address the aspects of the legislation that are most ripe for abuse. Although gun collectors are among those most at risk for the abusive use of the ex parte (one-sided) judicial processes that the bill creates, few collectors have been visible in opposition. There may some rude awakenings in store down the road.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:28 PM
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Stay out of Maryland.
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:47 AM
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"Take the guns first, go through due process second," - President Donald J. Trump, February 28, 2018.

So, Maryland is poised to be the first state to actually enact what the POTUS recommended. We'll see how this turns out, but if this holds up under scrutiny by the courts, then the slippery slope has transitioned to a cliff.
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Old 11-07-2018, 06:10 PM
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A man was killed by police officers who where “trying to enforce Maryland’s Red Flag Law”

First and foremost - obey an officers command, this would have turned out a lot differently for the homeowner.

Maryland’s ‘Red Flag’ Law Turns Deadly: Officer Kills Man Who Refused To Turn In Gun << CBS Baltimore
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
As offered here, this change in the law has significant 4th Amendment issues and may eventually be found to be unconstitutional on the 4th, rather than the 2nd Amendment.
The problem with that is the expected outcome will occur only after years of expensive litigation, which few individuals will be able to sustain. Even then, the damage done will never be undone.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
There should be a federal law that makes false reporting a mandatory 10 year prison sentence upon conviction. No exceptions, whether family, medical, neighbor, or even police. False report go to prison for 10 years.
They would have to prove malicious intent on the part of the citizen doing the reporting. I would imagine this to be quite a task in today's world where "if you see something, say something" is encouraged. I suspect that the people reporting others...would be protected by "Good Samaritan" laws. There should at least be some responsibility on the part of the police and local authorities to first ascertain if the complaint is legitimate...in other words if it passes the "smell test"...rather than resorting to a knee-jerk reaction.
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron In MD View Post
A man was killed by police officers who where “trying to enforce Maryland’s Red Flag Law”

First and foremost - obey an officers command, this would have turned out a lot differently for the homeowner.

Maryland’s ‘Red Flag’ Law Turns Deadly: Officer Kills Man Who Refused To Turn In Gun << CBS Baltimore
Stupid law, but poor judgement on the gun owners part.....maybe making bad decisions was one of the reasons he was reported and his ability to be reasonable was diminishing.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500SNW View Post
They would have to prove malicious intent on the part of the citizen doing the reporting. I would imagine this to be quite a task in today's world where "if you see something, say something" is encouraged. I suspect that the people reporting others...would be protected by "Good Samaritan" laws. There should at least be some responsibility on the part of the police and local authorities to first ascertain if the complaint is legitimate...in other words if it passes the "smell test"...rather than resorting to a knee-jerk reaction.
Nope, no Good Samaritan necessary.......the person making the complaint is protected by language in this law from criminal or civil penalties as long as they made their complaint in "Good Faith".
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:04 PM
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So you aver someone advising law enforcement the CA shooter (Wednesday night) was a danger to himself/others was wrong and said shooter should be allowed to ‘keep and bear firearms?’
My understanding is that someone indeed did report that shooter to authorities, maybe in April, they investigated, I believe even to the point of a psych exam, and declared him OK.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:59 AM
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Our country as a whole has yet to figure how to help the mentally ill. So instead they resort to stupid laws such as this.

This is only the beginning. Blanket CYA laws do not work.
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:03 AM
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What a scary scary law. I just read up on this. It's an end around on doing away with the 2nd amendment. So if I understand this law makes it possible (and probable in many circumstance) and easy for anyone who doesn't like you or the fact that you own a gun, or is just an anti gun person in general, (Lots of those around) be able to petition a judge, with just their signature, without any evidence, and your gun collection vanishes. You talk about draconian. This violates the constitution at so many levels. I am horrified by this. I say "end around" to gun confiscation because the way this appears to be written, as more anti gun advocates, especially radical anti gun advocates understand the power they have, they can and will just start turning in anyone with a gun or gun collection. It's de facto confiscation by the anti gun advocates without actually writing a law that would not pass. Am I missing something?
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
Our country as a whole has yet to figure how to help the mentally ill. So instead they resort to stupid laws such as this.

This is only the beginning. Blanket CYA laws do not work.
Very true!
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:22 AM
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Every time I read something like this all I can say is “Thank God for Georgia.”
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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Several posts have been deleted. If one of your posts was among the deleted, then it's time for you to go back and read the rules for this section of the forum, and for the general forum as well.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:50 PM
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Several years ago I was saying that "pretty soon, we'll have to get a note from our doctor before we can buy a gun." I was only half joking. With continual focus on the hindsight-obvious mental illnesses of these "mass shooters" I just see it as a logical next step for the lawmakers. I still maintain that it is possible that, in addition to the usual NICS background check, we just might have to get a doctor, shrink or psychologist to sign off that we are not kooks.
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:44 PM
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Can you imagine the liability insurance a doctor would have to carry if that comes to fruition? I believe the medical lobby would vigorously oppose any such requirement.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:06 AM
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I'm just a dumb ole country boy but why don't you go ahead and just give your guns to someone down here better than getting em confiscated .Ill take the first shipment PM me for adress and my FFL s info.Just kidding all these report / confiscate laws are rife for abuse it seems to me .

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Old 11-15-2018, 02:44 PM
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Can you imagine the liability insurance a doctor would have to carry if that comes to fruition? I believe the medical lobby would vigorously oppose any such requirement.
Yeah, about that, you might want to carefully consider this due to certain leanings of professional doctoral organization(s). I believe that they definitely would want this ‘responsibility’.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:10 AM
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I live in S.C. Right now our gun laws make a lot sense to me. That said, I can see something like the Maryland thing coming to Greenville or Charleston in a few years. We have had LOTS of liberals move here. I don't quite understand their logic. We have low taxes which they seem to like but as soon as they get here they start pushing to make this place like where they came from.
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:52 AM
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I live in S.C. Right now our gun laws make a lot sense to me. That said, I can see something like the Maryland thing coming to Greenville or Charleston in a few years. We have had LOTS of liberals move here. I don't quite understand their logic. We have low taxes which they seem to like but as soon as they get here they start pushing to make this place like where they came from.
I agree. That has happened here in Virginia and it is spreading deeper and deeper into the south. When people move, either because of their job or retirement, they tend to take their economic and social views with them.
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Old 11-18-2018, 10:02 AM
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GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. I predict a BIG increase in lost firearms. Be careful while out boating.
If you think that is a solution. You are deluded.

This fight is World wide. WAKE UP!
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:19 PM
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I live in S.C. Right now our gun laws make a lot sense to me. That said, I can see something like the Maryland thing coming to Greenville or Charleston in a few years.
If an ERPO law comes to South Carolina, it won't be for just a couple of cities like Charleston or Greenville...it'll be statewide.
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:02 AM
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More Red Flag..
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:03 PM
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That is my son's exact complaint about Charlotte and the counties right over the state line in SC.

Five years of living in AL spoiled him.

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I live in S.C. Right now our gun laws make a lot sense to me. That said, I can see something like the Maryland thing coming to Greenville or Charleston in a few years. We have had LOTS of liberals move here. I don't quite understand their logic. We have low taxes which they seem to like but as soon as they get here they start pushing to make this place like where they came from.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurusu View Post
If you think that is a solution. You are deluded.

This fight is World wide. WAKE UP!
People have their heads in the sand if they think things like this aren’t coming to them. Demographics are changing everywhere, not for the good.

Last edited by ladder13; 12-02-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:38 AM
10ring 10ring is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
People have their heads in the sand if they think things like this aren’t coming to them. Demographics are changing everywhere, not for the good.
Absolutely correct, and all the molon labe and boating accident stuff is not the answer and frankly suggests a misunderstanding of the capabilities of modern law enforcement and the persuasive effect of a threatened prison term.

We are entering a new round of anti-gun sentiment and likely legislation, primarily at the state level, I suspect. We need to support the NRA (and yeah, none of us agrees with everything they do) and pay attention to what and who we vote for.

If you live in a solidly pro-gun state, I envy you, but please don't get too complacent. It wasn't that long ago I felt somewhat "safe." Now I live in Colocalichussets.

EDIT: I realize some of the boating accident stuff is said in jest and I mean no insult to anyone by my comments. We are on the same side of this issue. I just don't believe it advances our cause to claim or think that would be the answer and I fear it furthers the stereotyped image of an "assault weapon" owner that the other side like to perpetuate. These comments are all public.

Last edited by 10ring; 12-02-2018 at 11:50 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-02-2018, 12:38 PM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Nicely said, 10ring.
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  #35  
Old 02-28-2021, 09:39 AM
joeraf joeraf is offline
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Better idea. They should take the tv’s instead of trying to take the guns ( a much more intelligent idea)!
  #36  
Old 02-28-2021, 01:54 PM
llowry61 llowry61 is offline
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Did this law pass ?
  #37  
Old 02-28-2021, 02:17 PM
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Zombie thread, over 2 years old
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