Boulder Colorado Poised For More Gun & Mag Bans

[FloridaS&W]

This is how it's happening now; at the state level, small councils of creepy bureaucrats take a vote, and "poof" there go your gun rights. State after state, city after city. Many of these activists are coming in from other areas (not locals). They're actively going after anything semi-auto, and any mags over 10 rds; make no mistake brothers, this is a wave of subversion unlike we've ever seen, and it's coming your way. It's going to take more than silence to stop this...

Boulder City Council Passes Gun Ban On First Reading | Weasel Zippers

[Shark Bait]

There you have it. It's no longer possible to have a mass shooting in Boulder. Way to go Cali-rado. Bring in the dope, ban the guns.

[TeamPB]

Apologies to Upton Sinclair.

I live in the Peoples Republic of Boulder. Jill Adler Grano and the city attorney thought this was, I quote, "a no-brainer".
They are mistaken. The city council has never before seen the level of citizen involvement for any issue in our history that it had at last Thursday's special council session and 80% of it was against the ordinance. The deal may be done behind closed doors, but the fight is far from over.

My family does not own an Armalite Rifle style of firearm, but my Honey's M&P 15-22 is considered a weapon of war under this bad ordinance. She went to the meeting and I streamed it at work. The level of civility and rationality on our side was impressive, even to some on the council. The fight is not over and Honey may become an outlaw yet. Of course my Garands, M1 Carbines and 1903's aren't considered weapons of war under this bad ordinance.

Colorado and Boulder have not rolled over yet and the "leaders" of the PRB have been unpleasantly surprised. We'll see what happens and we'll fight. And win!

Bob Korasidas

[fordson]

Please keep us posted on your efforts. We all learn from each other.

[Wise_A]

City attorney Tom Carr asked the audience to stop laughing at him as he tried to explain the nuances of various types of guns.

I seem to recall people telling me to "move to a free state" every time I bring up some of the more annoying things about NY.

I don't think that Texas is all that far off from Florida Syndrome. Red-Blue count is pretty similar in both states' legislatures.

[fordson]

FL is still good. The recent changes in gun laws here, while bad in concept, are nowhere as bad as the opposition party wanted them to be. We have a rally here tomorrow in the state capital. We’ll see how that goes.

[Targets Guy]

Keep up the good fight Boulderites.

[dben002]

Yes indeed...DC will not respond, so cities and states are imposing their will.

It will take someone with deep pockets and a good constitutional lawyer and the will to spend the time and money to force all these cases through the courts.

If that does not happen, this is here to stay, and will get progressively worse.

Might want to be planning a boating accident at a DEEP lake..

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by fordson

FL is still good. The recent changes in gun laws here, while bad in concept, are nowhere as bad as the opposition party wanted them to be.

Unless you're 18-21 years old.

[BC38]

Yeah, we don't need to do anything like publicly show where we stand or anything. That goofy Hogg kid and his buddies aren't going to get anything done to restrict our rights.

So now we have new restrictions like this enacted in Florida, Massachusetts, Illinois, Vermont, New Jersey, and now Colorado - in just the last month or so.

But it isn't coming to a town near you anytime soon. The anti's aren't gaining ground or anything. No need to go to rallies, or join the NRA or do anything rash like that. Let's just sit on our duffs and do nothing.

Better yet let's gripe about it on the internet and make fun of the social media tools that the youngsters are using to organize their anti-Second Amendment rallies. That will show them.

Move along, nothing to see here....

[paulh]

Add Vermont & New Jersey to that list

[BC38]

Good point paulh - added

[LoboGunLeather]

Most of us in Colorado regard Boulder as little more than 42 miles surrounded by reality. Definitely the headquarters for the "Let's Californicate Colorado Movement", always counted on to jump on the politically correct wagon every time.

Colorado has a relatively strong state preemption statute, so I expect that this action by the Boulder City Council will be in court very quickly.

Boulder is a bad joke that just keeps repeating itself.

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by BC38

Yeah, we don't need to do anything like publicly show where we stand or anything. That goofy Hogg kid and his buddies aren't going to get anything done to restrict our rights.

Because you're under the mistaken impression that the people who write and vote on laws care where you stand.

They don't think you're nonexistent. They don't think you want gun control. There's no credible threat behind numbers for our special interest. What are you going to do--vote for the other side? Stay home? That's why Florida rolled: the Republicans were terrified of losing the state, so they capitulated. And frankly, after that, they should lose the state, and Governor Scott deserves to lose his Senate race. This is a guy who runs on being a "true conservative". It's Line #1 of his website.

I would also point out that you're counting whack-a-doodle city councils as "new gun laws in Colorado and Michigan". Which is pretty much the result of people not bothering to turn out for local elections. Whatever. They'll get overturned in the preemption lawsuits, assuming they get pushed far enough. The sad part is that the taxpayers of those municipalities will have to foot the bill, and the Big Bad NRA will be blamed.

New Jersey was a lost cause as soon as Murphy was elected governor. If you want to blame anybody, blame Chris Christie, who not only razed any Republican candidate's chances for succeeding him, but managed to salt the earth as well.

Vermont has a Democratic majority in the assembly, even before you count the Independents and Progressives. Again, the big story is the betrayal by a Republican governor, because we have absolutely no way to inflict political consequences on him.

Even if those ludicrous marches were remotely successful--hastily-organized, over-ambitious, and on a Saturday--we're still a minority. We're looking for ways to defend ourselves against the tides of popular opinion, and as a minority, we can't do that by playing a popular opinion game. We need to demonstrate that gun owners are more valuable than mere votes, and that means political volunteerism.

[BC38]

Sorry Wise_A, but I disagree. It isn't - and shouldn't be - either / or. It needs to be BOTH.

WHY the heck do you always adopt such a defeatist position? That does more damage to our side than if you were an anti-2A proponent - because since you're on OUR side people won't argue with you like they would an anti.

IMO you're discouraging a form of activism - and at this point, ANY and ALL activism is needed. Is there some reason you can't simply encourage others to volunteer politically without discouraging OTHER efforts?

There are people who can't or won't make the time to volunteer for political campaigns. Sad, but true. At least SOME of those people will at least attend a rally - which is better than nothing and possibly a stepping-stone to doing more.

Then someone comes along and tells them how politicians don't care or listen and a) we're already defeated or b) the anti's aren't making progress - and lulls them to sleep with apathy or discouragement.

As I see it your actions help the other side more than they help ours. Might make you feel smarter and "WISE-er" than the rest of us but it doesn't do anything to further our goals and positions.
Nice job.

[Wise_A]

Because it's a realistic position, and because it allows us to exchange things we don't care about for things we do. I don't feel like dying on a hill for bump stocks. And in the same vein, I don't see the point of wasting money and activism on an item that we're going to lose anyway, that nobody gives much of a damn about anyway aside from the point that it's a gun law.

Politics is a zero-sum game with limited resources. Every dollar and minute you spend defending positions you can't hold is a dollar and a minute you don't have available to resist universal background checks.

Is there some reason you can't simply encourage others to volunteer politically without discouraging OTHER efforts?

Because I've been to them. Here's how it goes when it's successful:

--5000 people show up
--4950 of them are rational, law-abiding folks
--50 of them are foaming-at-the-mouth whackjobs and anti plants
--Guess which ones get a camera pointed at them?

When it's not successful, it's the same as when you drive to a gun show and see two lonely protesters.

Rallies feel nice, but that's about it. And yeah, I think they're damaging when people think that that counts as their contribution for the year.

There are people who can't or won't make the time to volunteer for political campaigns. Sad, but true.

If you have half a morning to show up for a rally, you have enough time to volunteer. That's all it takes to cover one to three neighborhoods' worth of doorknob packets.

And here's the thing: there's going to be half-nobody actually doing this. Literally half of them are going to be the candidates themselves. And even money says you can expect your state assemblymen to be at the HQ.

You know--those guys that vote on your state's gun laws.

Then someone comes along and tells them how politicians don't care or listen and a) we're already defeated or b) the anti's aren't making progress - and lulls them to sleep with apathy or discouragement.

One--when they're not being listened to, what good does lying do?

Two--in case you weren't paying attention, all the losses have been at the state level. FL and VT were both huge gut-punches, and should be a hell of a wakeup call.

Side note, I thought it was pretty damn disgusting how the majority of 2A guys thought that disenfranchising 18-21 year-olds was no big deal, especially after (and rightly so) the world practically ended when they wanted to do the same to folks that got financial management assistance. Dudes--this is why you guys have such bad luck with non-traditional gun owners. Cuz everyone cries about millennials and blasts country music at NRAAM.

Precisely where we're weakest, and where we have the best chance to make the greatest impact with the smallest number of people. The RNC is cash-rich and volunteer-short. That's an opportunity to create dependency. Dependency means leverage. Leverage means we get what we want.

The NRA's done a great job at national organization and applying resources to specific situations, supporting state-level organizations in lawsuits against various infringements. NRA money to NYSRPA is literally the reason why I have three extra rounds in my carry pistol.

Where we suck out loud is grassroots organization. The antis are entrenched in the various Democratic committees because that's where loose stuff rolls. We don't have that strength because the NRA is too dependent on the RNC to do anything but support whatever candidates the local Republican committees pick (too often, a candidate weak on guns).

---

We're not far apart. I think we both agree that we have to reach state legislators. Personally, I think that's great. Those people are accessible, a lot easier than trying to press the flesh with a congressman.

Where we differ is how to do that, and why we're currently failing (which we are). I don't think that the school walk-outs and mass anti protests were all that "proactively" successful. That is to say, they didn't suddenly rouse a wave of anti-gun sentiment among the political class. I think that what they really did was expose how our political allies aren't really that committed to fighting for us.

[TeamPB]

Not everything(or everyone) in Boulder is a, "no brainer".

Gun control advocates urge Boulder not to push assault-weapons ban to November election - Boulder Daily Camera

[ParadiseRoad]

...Citizens?..or Subjects?...

Gun control backers urge Boulder to pass assault weapons ban, not to send measure to voters | FOX31 Denver

[ladder13]

If son of Mario Cuomo were gov of CO he would just make a declaration, he is king after all.

[nicky4968]

I grew up in Greeley, Colorado. I worked in the Boulder District Court for 11 years. With one exception, I found the judges to be wary of letting politics interfere with their decisions.

OTOH, when the city council made it illegal to wage thermonuclear war in Boulder, it seemed about the norm.

[Chubbo]

Originally Posted by FloridaS&W

This is how it's happening now; at the state level, small councils of creepy bureaucrats take a vote, and "poof" there go your gun rights. State after state, city after city. Many of these activists are coming in from other areas (not locals). They're actively going after anything semi-auto, and any mags over 10 rds; make no mistake brothers, this is a wave of subversion unlike we've ever seen, and it's coming your way. It's going to take more than silence to stop this...

Boulder City Council Passes Gun Ban On First Reading | Weasel Zippers

Florida S&W:
I hate to be repetitive, but, consider it necessary. PLEASE, READ, ALL, OF "Best Quotations Of Thomas Jefferson".

[Chubbo]

After reading many posts, pertaining to our gun rights, relentlessly being taken from us, I've suggested many times, that all concerned, read the short book, entitled, "Best Quotations Of Thomas Jefferson". The author of this book, our third president, had the foresight to know the problems we folks, living in a "democracy", would eventually have to face, and offer suggestions about what would be needed to solve them. Apparently no one, has read it, as I have not read of a single, reference to my suggestions. Nevertheless, I will keep making the suggestion, as long as I am allowed to do so! Now, How about it, Has anyone read it?

Chubbo

[Chubbo]

Originally Posted by Chubbo

After reading many posts, pertaining to our gun rights, relentlessly being taken from us, I've suggested many times, that all concerned, read the short book, entitled, "Best Quotations Of Thomas Jefferson". The author of this book, our third president, had the foresight to know the problems we folks, living in a "democracy", would eventually have to face, and offer suggestions about what would be needed to solve them. Apparently no one, has read it, as I have not read of a single, reference to my suggestions. Nevertheless, I will keep making the suggestion, as long as I am allowed to do so! Now, How about it, Has anyone read it?

Chubbo

Well, I guess not. No one wants to hear the truth, It's easier to sit back, whine, and offer solutions that can't work, and wait for some one else to find a miraculous answer to the problem, one that requires little, no, participation, or effort on the "whiner's" part. It's a fact, We, the legal gun owners of the USA, do have a BIG problem, that will have to be dealt with, before it's resolved, one way or the other. The answer, although "As Plain As A Billy Goat's Butt" is not easy, or pleasant.

Chubbo

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Chubbo

After reading many posts, pertaining to our gun rights, relentlessly being taken from us, I've suggested many times, that all concerned, read the short book, entitled, "Best Quotations Of Thomas Jefferson". The author of this book, our third president, had the foresight to know the problems we folks, living in a "democracy", would eventually have to face, and offer suggestions about what would be needed to solve them. Apparently no one, has read it, as I have not read of a single, reference to my suggestions. Nevertheless, I will keep making the suggestion, as long as I am allowed to do so! Now, How about it, Has anyone read it?

Chubbo

I've lost track of how many times you've suggested forum members read this book. You keep promoting it, even though everything Jefferson said doesn't have a thing to do with freedom, guns, the Second Amendment, or individual liberties.

Do you have some specific quotes in mind that pertain to this?

I haven't read the book, simply because I can't find it. I'm not sure you have the title correct, either. I've searched and can't find a book titled Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson. There are pages and websites devoted to Jefferson and his more notable quotes.

Do you have a link to this book and its title? If so, please post it somewhere in this forum so I can find it. Otherwise, I doubt anyone will read it and comment on it.

Or is the book shown here the one you're talking about?

[Chubbo]

Originally Posted by Watchdog

I've lost track of how many times you've suggested forum members read this book. You keep promoting it, even though everything Jefferson said doesn't have a thing to do with freedom, guns, the Second Amendment, or individual liberties.

Do you have some specific quotes in mind that pertain to this?

I haven't read the book, simply because I can't find it. I'm not sure you have the title correct, either. I've searched and can't find a book titled Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson. There are pages and websites devoted to Jefferson and his more notable quotes.

Do you have a link to this book and its title? If so, please post it somewhere in this forum so I can find it. Otherwise, I doubt anyone will read it and comment on it.

Or is the book shown here the one you're talking about?

Watchdoog:

I don't know how better to answer questions like the ones you asked, or how you could make a statement like you did, in your quote, as follows, "Even though everything Jefferson said dosen't have anything to do with freedom, guns, the second amendment, or individual libertys". Maybe you should find the most basic American History book, and start by reading it. OBTW I did give the correct title of this book, in question. It was written by
Thomas Jefferson, the third president, of the USA. If you can follow the easy to follow, title, "Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson", type it into "Google" on your computer, and you should be able to find the book. I have the Kindle edition, for 99¢. I don't know where you found that book that you showed, but it is not the one that I suggested. It's easy to tell, by reading the title. Sorry about the confusion. You are right, I have suggested this book many times, perhaps too many times. And since only one person was interested, I will now "shut Up", and be prepared, for what is certain to come.

Chubbo

[Infidel137]

Originally Posted by Watchdog

I haven't read the book, simply because I can't find it. I'm not sure you have the title correct, either. I've searched and can't find a book titled Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson.

Did you try putting quotation marks around the title?

[first-model]

Originally Posted by Chubbo

I don't know how better to answer questions like the ones you asked, or how you could make a statement like you did, in your quote, as follows, "Even though everything Jefferson said dosen't have anything to do with freedom, guns, the second amendment, or individual libertys". Maybe you should find the most basic American History book, and start by reading it. OBTW I did give the correct title of this book, in question. It was written by Thomas Jefferson, the third president, of the USA. If you can follow the easy to follow, title, "Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson", type it into "Google" on your computer, and you should be able to find the book. I have the Kindle edition, for 99¢.

Here's a link to it:

Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson - Kindle edition by Thomas Jefferson. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

 

Best Quotations of Thomas Jefferson - Kindle edition by Thomas Jefferson. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

Contrary to what this individual claims, this book is *not* written by Thomas Jefferson. It's just an unattributed assemblage of quotes that may or may not have come from Jefferson. This is self-published rubbish that no self-respecting historian is going to place on his/her bookshelf.

I'd be happy to recommend some critically acclaimed American history books, but be warned: they're all longer than 11 pages.

Mike

[TeamPB]

It will still probably be bad, or at the very least distasteful for us, but the cracks in the"no-brainer" crowd's stance are multipling and widening. I know many of my fellow Coloradan's have given up on Boulder, but we have not.

Boulder gun-control measure could see significant changes before approval - Boulder Daily Camera

Bob and Marilyn Korasidas: Council should withdraw proposed ban - Boulder Daily Camera

[Wise_A]

The proposed revisions aren't really much better. Limiting what's defined as "assault weapons" to folks with CCW permits amounts to registration. Even worse, mandating that folks who want "AWs" and "high-capacity" magazines be members of a competitive shooting organization is both unenforceable and creates infringement based on "needs".

I would also suggest that the city attorney's "magazines outside of the grip" definition for pistol "AWS" covers a lot of ground. Namely, he'd be banning a lot of 5-shot .22LR and .32 S&W Long target pistols. But on the plus side, at least he's not attacking threaded barrels or anything like that.

I'm also sort of curious:

In response to that feedback, Carr has included for the council's consideration on Tuesday a new potential exemption for those who hold concealed-carry permits.

If the council decides to include that exemption, Boulder residents who want to keep buying assault weapon could simply apply for permits, and then find themselves on the right side of this law.

The sheriff has the discretion to refuse permit applications based on documented evidence that an applicant is a risk to public safety. Certain crimes of domestic violence don't always qualify as reasons to deny concealed-carry applicants.

"You could have someone who is a batterer, who is abusing his girlfriend, who can still get a concealed-carry permit," Carr said.

So, let me get this straight, City Attorney Carr.

1) You think that you can be convicted of DV battery and not lose your firearms.

or

2) You're pissed that people have to be tried and convicted before you can start punishing them.

And on top of all that, all of you clueless simps somehow think that some dirtbag is going to be deterred by the hassle of driving all the way out of Boulder to buy whatever he wants. Not to mention, that an individual bent on mass murder, or shooting his ex-girlfriend, draws the line at carrying without a permit.

[TeamPB]

So the Daily Camera is not Pravda or Isvestia, but here in the Peoples Republic of Boulder, you have to read between the lines. I will not engage (too much) in local rumour mongering, but the potential for the "ordinance" to be pulled back from the provisions listed in today's article is growing daily. Again, the City Council is not on ourside, but the reality of many, many Boulderites oppisition to the "ordinance" has unpleasently suprised them.

Bob

[TeamPB]

Well Wise A, you were essentially correct all along. Last night was the city council discussion/deliberation period for this ordinance. The level of confident and smug ignorance displayed by a majority of the members was amazing. The discussion was streamed online and it was obvious that banning all firearms in Boulder is the goal of some of the most pampered and soft petty politicians I have ever seen. The silver lining for me is that their arrogant attitude, their pure hubris, has driven them to over reach. Its time to donate more to the NRA and to hope that the Great State of Colorado reign these fools in. I don't even own an AR style rifle, yet.

[FloridaS&W]

UPDATE:

"The Boulder City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to advance a ban on the sale and possession of assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines in the city."

Boulder Votes To Advance Ban On Sale, Possession Of Assault Weapons | Weasel Zippers

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by TeamPB

Well Wise A, you were essentially correct all along. Last night was the city council discussion/deliberation period for this ordinance. The level of confident and smug ignorance displayed by a majority of the members was amazing. The discussion was streamed online and it was obvious that banning all firearms in Boulder is the goal of some of the most pampered and soft petty politicians I have ever seen. The silver lining for me is that their arrogant attitude, their pure hubris, has driven them to over reach. Its time to donate more to the NRA and to hope that the Great State of Colorado reign these fools in. I don't even own an AR style rifle, yet.

The entire recent trend of municipal-level firearms restrictions is, in my opinion, the single greatest threat we face, because there really aren't a lot of options for fighting back.

(1) Issuing legal challenges is far more costly in both money and manpower than the NRA and state-level affiliates can bear. Every city, town, and county is a potential quagmire, and it doesn't cost the other side a dime: city attorneys are already on the payroll, ours aren't.

(2) Even when you get a ruling from a superior court, they tend not to listen until somebody files another suit against them.

(3) When you win the legal battle, the NRA and gun owners are demonized as punishing and impoverishing poor municipalities who are just trying to keep people safe. People blame us rather than the elected officials who used city resources to break the law.

The tragic part is, regardless of our shared opinion on gun rights, none of this is making anybody safer. It's only distracting the clueless from real change.

[S&WsRsweet]

I feel proud to be an NRA member as I know in my heart we are on the right side of freedom . I can appreciate those who came before me and paid and fought to preserve my freedoms and I refuse to do anything less for those countless generations that will follow . I blame the situation today on the fact that the men and weOMEN of America have become too lazy yes that's correct lazy to go to a school board meaning and get involved in the garbage that has been taught to our kids not just this generation but since the sixties at least . I had a teacher try to " explain" to me that this kid whole stole something came from a poor family and couldn't help himself . I ask her did she not realize I was poor also my mom didn't do waitress work as a hobby ,yea her liberal butt didn't like me much after that . Thank God I wasn't raised by lazy head in the sand people my Dad told me what was bull and what was real .Get involved join the fight !

[GKC]

I read about this today, and what mystifies me about this whole absurd law is that those who already own "assault rifles" can keep them, with a certificate of prior ownership, but those who own high capacity magazines must get rid of them by July 15. Why not allow them to be retained as well? Or require them to be modified to 10 rounds, as other cities/states have done in the past?

Don't get me wrong...I think the whole law is a travesty, but the application of it is completely illogical.

[Watchdog]

Looks as if Boulder has passed their gun ordinance.

Boulder's City Council Passes Sweeping Anti-Gun Bill

[cybermgk]

Originally Posted by Wise_A

Because it's a realistic position, and because it allows us to exchange things we don't care about for things we do. I don't feel like dying on a hill for bump stocks. And in the same vein, I don't see the point of wasting money and activism on an item that we're going to lose anyway, that nobody gives much of a damn about anyway aside from the point that it's a gun law.

Politics is a zero-sum game with limited resources. Every dollar and minute you spend defending positions you can't hold is a dollar and a minute you don't have available to resist universal background checks.



Because I've been to them. Here's how it goes when it's successful:

--5000 people show up
--4950 of them are rational, law-abiding folks
--50 of them are foaming-at-the-mouth whackjobs and anti plants
--Guess which ones get a camera pointed at them?

When it's not successful, it's the same as when you drive to a gun show and see two lonely protesters.

Rallies feel nice, but that's about it. And yeah, I think they're damaging when people think that that counts as their contribution for the year.



If you have half a morning to show up for a rally, you have enough time to volunteer. That's all it takes to cover one to three neighborhoods' worth of doorknob packets.

And here's the thing: there's going to be half-nobody actually doing this. Literally half of them are going to be the candidates themselves. And even money says you can expect your state assemblymen to be at the HQ.

You know--those guys that vote on your state's gun laws.



One--when they're not being listened to, what good does lying do?

Two--in case you weren't paying attention, all the losses have been at the state level. FL and VT were both huge gut-punches, and should be a hell of a wakeup call.

Side note, I thought it was pretty damn disgusting how the majority of 2A guys thought that disenfranchising 18-21 year-olds was no big deal, especially after (and rightly so) the world practically ended when they wanted to do the same to folks that got financial management assistance. Dudes--this is why you guys have such bad luck with non-traditional gun owners. Cuz everyone cries about millennials and blasts country music at NRAAM.

Precisely where we're weakest, and where we have the best chance to make the greatest impact with the smallest number of people. The RNC is cash-rich and volunteer-short. That's an opportunity to create dependency. Dependency means leverage. Leverage means we get what we want.

The NRA's done a great job at national organization and applying resources to specific situations, supporting state-level organizations in lawsuits against various infringements. NRA money to NYSRPA is literally the reason why I have three extra rounds in my carry pistol.

Where we suck out loud is grassroots organization. The antis are entrenched in the various Democratic committees because that's where loose stuff rolls. We don't have that strength because the NRA is too dependent on the RNC to do anything but support whatever candidates the local Republican committees pick (too often, a candidate weak on guns).

---

We're not far apart. I think we both agree that we have to reach state legislators. Personally, I think that's great. Those people are accessible, a lot easier than trying to press the flesh with a congressman.

Where we differ is how to do that, and why we're currently failing (which we are). I don't think that the school walk-outs and mass anti protests were all that "proactively" successful. That is to say, they didn't suddenly rouse a wave of anti-gun sentiment among the political class. I think that what they really did was expose how our political allies aren't really that committed to fighting for us.

THe problem with this approach, is it affects the FUTURE. Because of the big money behind the, ahem, marches organized by children (yea children with no money for huge rented venues) is it is affecting legislators in office NOW.

And, we have an issue NOW. There IS a big push, with big money behind it right now.

Frankly, we need BOTH kinds of activism.

In Illinois here, we are constantly fighting the Legislature. It's crooked, corrupt and ran by a machine that has no qualms about taking our rights. We had a 'black wednesday' where multiple very bad anti-2a bills passed one house, or both. It has been a very hard fight after that day months ago. That Wednesday, Mom's Against (Everything) was in Springfield, in force. That certainly influenced votes, it was obvious. That was just 50 or so of them.

So far, of those many bills, none have become law. One via veto, and a 2nd via amended veto, that also had a bunch of changes our side wanted in a bill still active in the houses (A lethal Order of Protection bill), to force their hand AND changing a BAD bill that outlawed Assault Weapons, badly codifying a very loose definition of an Assault Weapon (basically a semi auto rifle) into law, for 18-21 year olds into a 3 day wait for all long guns (already have to for handguns). All of which was needed political maneuvering because our current R Governor has a fierce challenge coming in November's election, and he needed some wins because we have way to many swing votes in Illinois, and they are needed.

BUT, the real take away is, all of the above AND getting the other 5 bills stalled or pulled in the houses, was because of our IGOLD March of THOUSANDS strong. The Legislators saw this, and it had an effect. They flat out said, afterwars the size of the opposition to these bills changed their course and opened sponsors to amendments or pulling them.

ALL you can do, is all you can do.