The 9th getting funky

[ladder13]

Of course this is not the whole 9th and will probably get reversed on appeal but what’s up with the 9th?

U.S. appeals court: Constitution gives right to carry gun in public | Reuters

[akdude]

U.S. appeals court upholds right to carry gun in public | Reuters

[charles_the_hammer]

Could be a trap. The Loony 9th might want the case to get kicked up to the SC like that judge did who originally ruled on US vs. Miller. That was the one where the SC ruled a sawed-off shotgun had "no place in a militia".

[ISCS Yoda]

Looks pretty clear to me. Here is the short news story I read -

(C) 2018 The Associated Press


EarthLink - U.S. News


==========================================

Notwithstanding their ruling in the past that said that carrying concealed was not a right this very same San Francisco court said that "for better or worse" the 2nd Amendment does protect the right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense.

How can it be a trap? If the case gets kicked up to the SCOTUS we already KNOW how that court will rule, especially after Judge Kavanaugh gets confirmed. This is GREAT news coming from the Ninth Circuit.

[GaryS]

It's a small, maybe temporary, win. I expect an enbanc rehearing and reveral... eventuality. As with Peruta the 9CA will likely sit on this for some time.

It will be appealed to SCOTUS and IF cert is granted it might then be a big victory.

Elections matter.

[ASA335]

Originally Posted by charles_the_hammer

Could be a trap. The Loony 9th might want the case to get kicked up to the SC like that judge did who originally ruled on US vs. Miller. That was the one where the SC ruled a sawed-off shotgun had "no place in a militia".

No, I don't see "a trap". Hopefully the SC will finally rule.

By the way, the SC in Miller did not rule that "a sawed-off shotgun had no place in a militia".

The actual decision included:

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

It would have been easy enough to show that the US Military (including militias) had used short barreled shotguns since probably the Revolutionary War - most certainly by the Civil War, but no one offered such evidence to the SC in Miller.

No evidence supporting such had been presented to the SC (Miller and Lawton were not represented before the SC; only the US Government presented an argument - and they weren't about to offer evidence supporting Miller/Lawton), so the SC remanded the case back to the appeals court for consideration - which never happened since Miller was missing and Lawton was dead. (Hope I explained that well enough.)

[ASA335]

Originally Posted by GaryS

... I expect an enbanc rehearing and reveral...

Agreed. Thanks.

[bushmaster1313]

Decision here

Right to open carry is protected under 2A !!!

[S42N8]

As a former (temporary) inhabitant of the People’s Republic of Hawaii, I believe that there’ll be three inches of ice across the state before open carry is lawful there.

That said, it’s noteworthy that a panel of the 9th Circuit acknowledges the state wrongfully denied issuing the plaintiff a permit. I suspect Hawaii will do away with permits right soon.

[Gamecock]

'The extent of the right to gun ownership is one of the most hotly contested debates in the United States, where mass shootings have become almost commonplace.' - Linked Reuters article

This BS shows whose side Reuters is on.

So it appears that you can open carry in Hawaii IF you get a permit.

Open carry is legal in North Carolina, but I've never seen anyone do it.

South Carolina is odd. 2nd Amendment rights are generally recognized. But open carry is illegal except on your property or while hunting, and concealed carry requires a permit. You have a right to carry, but you have to get a permit to do it. Doesn't make sense to me. The Reuters report says the ruling is, "The U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense." If they have it right, which is open to question, will it affect other states? Will permit requirements for other states be invaliated? Will it tell SC that they have to allow open carry?

I hope so. Of course, it would mean open carry is legal in all the U.S. Including New York City. So I don't see how this can work out.

[ISCS Yoda]

When the Supreme Court says that the right to open carry is protected under the Second Amendment I'll agree with the previous comment. Until SCOTUS says so, well, we are not there yet.

[robertrwalsh]

Clearly this is a win for the good guys. It may only be temporary, but with the current bent of SCOTUS one hopes that they will not punt like they did in Peruta. Now the Ninth Circuit has two more or less opposing decisions on more or less the same subject. That is just the sort of thing SCOTUS is around to deal with.

[Old Arkansawyer]

Originally Posted by ASA335

No, I don't see "a trap". Hopefully the SC will finally rule.

By the way, the SC in Miller did not rule that "a sawed-off shotgun had no place in a militia".

The actual decision included:

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

It would have been easy enough to show that the US Military (including militias) had used short barreled shotguns since probably the Revolutionary War - most certainly by the Civil War, but no one offered such evidence to the SC in Miller.

No evidence supporting such had been presented to the SC (Miller and Lawton were not represented before the SC; only the US Government presented an argument - and they weren't about to offer evidence supporting Miller/Lawton), so the SC remanded the case back to the appeals court for consideration - which never happened since Miller was missing and Lawton was dead. (Hope I explained that well enough.)

Was not that a case out of Pryor Creek, Ok.?

[Old Arkansawyer]

Open carry is legal in Arkansas. I have only seen a few over the years that I didn't think were plain clothes LEO's.

[Smoke]

So does this mean I can open carry in Hawaii? Does it overturn Califorinia's ban on Open Carry?

[bushmaster1313]

Win is not as big as it seems

1. Concealed carry can still be prohibited (this was the old Peruta case out of California)

2. Because the 2nd Amendment applies to self defense outside the home, it is unconstitutional to limit open carry to people like security guards (this is the real holding of the case, and it is a very good holding for the 2A).

3. The additional limitation in section 134-9, which provides that an open carry license may only be granted “[w]here the
urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated,” was not before the Ninth Circuit and the Constitutionality of this provision was NOT decided:

Thus, we do not
decide whether such requirement violates the Second Amendment.

So, it remains to be decided just what a citizen needs to show in an application for an open carry permit in order to satisfy the requirement that "the urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated.”

[URIT]

Don't open the bubbly just yet! This was a 2-1 decision by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The decision is sure to be appealed to the full panel at the 9th Circuit Court and we all know how they lean. The full panel ruled two years ago against open carry.

[345sire]

By the time I got to page 30, my eyes started to glaze over. Just can't get through the rest of it.
I'm assuming(yeah I know) this won't help us in New Jersey one iota.

[American1776]

I predict that in the next few years, may issues states like NJ, NY, MD, and the like will be compelled by SCOTUS to issue permits on a shall issue basis. Kavanaugh will be confirmed and one of these cases will be heard.

[mauiblue]

There is so much crime committed here in Hawaii with criminal using firearms. A week or so ago a police officer in Hawaii County was killed by a convicted felon with a handgun. He was on the run for a few days until police caught up with him and shot him dead. A man in Oahu was robbed by gun point at an ATM a couple nights ago. Last week there was an armed home invasion here on Maui where robbers stole $3000 dollars from the home residents.

I hope and pray that local citizens in Hawaii will be eventually allowed to legally carry firearms for the natural right of self defense. I have faith that with the legal win this past week there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Aloha to all.

[American1776]

Originally Posted by mauiblue

There is so much crime committed here in Hawaii with criminal using firearms. A week or so ago a police officer in Hawaii County was killed by a convicted felon with a handgun. He was on the run for a few days until police caught up with him and shot him dead. A man in Oahu was robbed by gun point at an ATM a couple nights ago. Last week there was an armed home invasion here on Maui where robbers stole $3000 dollars from the home residents.

I hope and pray that local citizens in Hawaii will be eventually allowed to legally carry firearms for the natural right of self defense. I have faith that with the legal win this past week there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Aloha to all.

I know your situation, growing up in NJ and visiting there frequently.

I honeymooned in HI for two weeks. One of our tour guides claimed he owned a Beretta 92. So I suppose not everyone is anti-gun. There were some places where I felt it would have been nice to be able to carry while there.