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Old 05-06-2018, 11:08 PM
Barefootdog Barefootdog is offline
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This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon....  
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We don't do general political discussion.
Stick to gun issues ONLY.
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The anti gunners are in charge in Salem.....

Ballot measure that needs to be stopped.

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/wp-con...Measure-43.pdf

Amounts to confiscation.

Been in this state since 1971/72. At this point it's unrecognizable from the place I moved to. I don't know if there is a way to stop it. We have two Oregons; the population centers and the rest of the state. May be moving after retirement......

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Old 05-07-2018, 08:18 AM
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Thatís similar, eerily, to the 2013 Safe Act in NY.
The major difference in NY was the Gov, with the help of some cronies, passed legislation sometime after midnight on the weekend, no ballot initiative.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:44 AM
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In addition of these proposed laws being a violation if the 2nd, I would love to see them struck down for violating the 14th's equal protection clause. There should be no exceptions allowed for agents of the state. It stinks of George Orwell's "some are more equal than others" condition in Animal Farm.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:09 AM
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Well, I "liked" you guys, not because of what the post says, but because you are on top of another assault on our fundamental freedoms. I have a close friend who still owns property in Oregon that I will pass this on to.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:21 PM
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The current group in the state capitol are very good at working quietly and behind the scenes. They don't attract a lot of attention so few people are really watching (or aware) of what is being done. This gun measure is just one issue.

Gathered 88,000 signatures when most in the state never knew it was being proposed. Apparently they stayed primarily in the major population centers like Portland and maybe Eugene or Salem.

Very corrupt and cynical group of ideologs in the state capitol.

Will it pass?.....Very well may....if it gets on the ballot and not challenged in court....largely due to support in the major population center in Portland metro area.

Last edited by Barefootdog; 05-07-2018 at 03:19 PM. Reason: general politics
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:39 PM
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The eastern half of Washington should unit with the eastern half of Oregon all the way to the Idaho border and form the 51st state.The left coast has the greater population so fighting them at the ballot box every election day may not be the best course of action.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:42 PM
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What a bunch of garbage!!
I do have one question though.... What is the big deal of having a bayonet lug?? How many mass bayonet attacks have we had recently?
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:45 PM
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I wish you folks out there on the west coast the best of luck. You must stop them. Support the NRA along the way.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootdog View Post
The current group in the state capitol are very good at working quietly and behind the scenes. They don't attract a lot of attention so few people are really watching (or aware) of what is being done. This gun measure is just one issue.

Gathered 88,000 signatures when most in the state never knew it was being proposed. Apparently they stayed primarily in the major population centers like Portland and maybe Eugene or Salem.

Very corrupt and cynical group of ideologs in the state capitol.

Will it pass?.....Very well may....if it gets on the ballot and not challenged in court....largely due to support in the major population.
1) Oregon seems very similar to Illinois. Cook County/Chicago is very left and very in control.

2) Unlike here, at least it is going to the polls. Our Legislators just pass laws like this.

3) As I read it, it isn't confiscation at this point. It is a forced Registration though.

4) The language as I read it, leaves some outs for NOT having to register the rifles.

Lets look at the 'definition of an assault rifle

to be one under that 'law' it first must have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. Only then, must it also have one of multiple

OR a fixed mag with more than 10 rds.

Then look how Fixed mag is defined. "permanently attached to the rifle, in such a manner, that the device can not be removed without disassembly of the firearm action."

This is just like California's law.

Devices like THIS, satisfy the 'fixed mag' definition, as the upper and lower have to be cracked to engage the mag release. Just has to be only 10 rders or less.

Additionally, this doesn't seem to list 'assault weapons' by model. Thus, rifles like the Mini-14 Ranch, would still be completely legal with 10 rd or less mags.

That said, yes, fight this, fight it into oblivion.

Last edited by handejector; 05-07-2018 at 02:20 PM. Reason: quote edited
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:21 PM
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We don't do general political discussion.
Stick to gun issues ONLY.
If you can't do that, don't comment.
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:18 PM
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Apologies to handejector....didn't mean to garner an infraction or cause upset....thanks for keeping the thread open....I'll be good in the future...BG
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:25 PM
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Illinois is setting up "sanctuary counties" to protect the gun owners.
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:42 PM
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No, it's totally different than the NY SAFE Act. See, in the Oregon law, they spelled "muzzle brake" correctly--don't laugh, NYSRPA sued and IIRC, won based on "muzzle breaks" not being a thing--and they remembered to give a blanket pass to law enforcement the first time around.

But yeah--remember all that stuff I said about how Portland, Seattle, Dallas, and Austin are going to ruin your states, the same way NYC ruins NYS? That.

I also wouldn't count on winning any legal challenges.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:06 AM
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I'm wondering and confused about what happens to my NFA Stamped firearms, IF even some of this happens.

I've already gone through extensive background checks, submitted current photo's, (mug shot's,) and fingerprints.

Anyone living in a state that this has happened have experience to share?

Jim
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4T5GUY View Post
I'm wondering and confused about what happens to my NFA Stamped firearms, IF even some of this happens.

I've already gone through extensive background checks, submitted current photo's, (mug shot's,) and fingerprints.

Anyone living in a state that this has happened have experience to share?

Jim
Section 5 of the proposal suggests that you can register your scary firearms and large capacity magazines with 'the Department' (of what?) on a form that they approve of, and must submit to another background check. Supposedly you are supposed to provide proof of safe storage.

I hope for a day when 'shall not be infringed' actually means something....
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootdog View Post
The current group in the state capitol are very good at working quietly and behind the scenes. They don't attract a lot of attention so few people are really watching (or aware) of what is being done. This gun measure is just one issue.

Gathered 88,000 signatures when most in the state never knew it was being proposed. Apparently they stayed primarily in the major population centers like Portland and maybe Eugene or Salem.

Very corrupt and cynical group of ideologs in the state capitol.

Will it pass?.....Very well may....if it gets on the ballot and not challenged in court....largely due to support in the major population center in Portland metro area.
One thing that would help would be if the pro-gun folks (like you) actually knew what they were talking about and didnít just spread panicky rumors.

Measure 43 has been FILED for signature gathering, meaning proponents had to submit a whopping 1000 signatures.

Now the AG has been gathering input on the title of the proposed ballot measure, which as far as I know is due to be announced in the next few weeks.

THEN proponents can start trying to collect the 88,000 signatures to try to get it on the November ballot.

HOWEVER, since pro-gun groups are likely to challenge aspects of the measure and the title in court, and signatures canít be gathered while there is pending litigation, whether or not the measureís supporters will get enough is at least questionable, maybe even unlikely.

So while thereís work ahead, the sky isnít falling.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:19 PM
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Fair enough...I was wrong. Misread two different sources and mistakenly thought this was farther along. Have read additional summaries and now i have an accurate understanding of whats going on...Thanks for pointing it out. I do appreciate that.

That being said pro gun people (like me?) tend to get uncomfortable when targeted by any number of feel good legislative acts or misguided ballot measures.

2A is law of the land....with a clearly defined process on how to change or modify its scope.

Going to the courts/ballot measures to chip away at my ability to exercise A2 rights is not the proper way to go about it. But these are the tactics being used by the mob. Yes it makes me nervous.

Going to the courts/ballot measures do nothing to stop or curb gun violence or deaths. Criminals will have any sort of gun/ magazine they can get their hands on no matter what law says. That defines a criminal. That makes me nervous.

Rather than limiting criminal activity these sorts of ballot measures expand the scope of criminality to capture greater numbers of otherwise law abiding productive non criminal citizens exercising their 2A rights. This makes me nervous.

This is government creating an entirely new class of criminals out of ordinary law abiding citizens whose prior contacts with law enforcement may well be limited to a traffic stop....while doing nothing to curb real criminals going about their daily criminal activities. And that makes me nervous.

But thanks for pointing out my mistake.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:36 PM
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The ballot measure/title was approved by the secretary of state and signature gathering is starting.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin View Post
What a bunch of garbage!!
I do have one question though.... What is the big deal of having a bayonet lug?? How many mass bayonet attacks have we had recently?
Same as kalif, just a way to ID a weapon they do not like. It has nothing to do with safety or functionality but just a way to say, "oh that is an assault rifle, bayonet lug", or flash suppressor or whatever. It is always a slippery slope.
They started with such poop here & now are going after ALL semiauto guns, regardless of caliber or config. If it fires semiauto, they are afraid & want to ban it. Semiauto pistols are next up in such states.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:06 AM
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.... going after ALL semiauto ......
Yes. That's how I read the definition too. The definition and the wording of the grip/stock is both comprehensive enough and vague enough to include all long guns I can imagine even bullpup designs.

"Any grip of the weapon, including any a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing;"
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:13 PM
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Laws like this really start to make revolvers look like the way to go.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:38 PM
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As I was about to drift off to sleep, I realized it wouldn't be hard to create a fixture that would move the grip & trigger of the AR pattern rifle to the rear of the action. You'd end up with a trigger blocking safety and it'd really screw with the folks who have to have their nose on the rear sight, but I think it'd be doable.

I think the bullpup would be exempt.

What we really need is an outstanding PR campaign.

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Old 05-31-2018, 09:28 PM
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Most rifles except those like a model 94 Winchester have a "pistol grip" and the trigger is below the action. Take a Ruger model 77, for example, the little cap, with the Ruger emblem, is on the butt of the "pistol grip" and the trigger of course is below the action DUH
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:33 PM
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^^^^^^ThTs just what I was thinking. When reading anti gun legislative proposals, it hard to tell whether we're dealing with extreme ignorance, or cunning malice. Or maybe a mixture of both.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
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^^^^^^ThTs just what I was thinking. When reading anti gun legislative proposals, it hard to tell whether we're dealing with extreme ignorance, or cunning malice. Or maybe a mixture of both.

Best Regards, Les
Les,
I think the answer is cunning malice. I think legislators learned from the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban and use language that eliminates prior workarounds like thumb hole stocks and have tried to use language that is both vague enough and specific enough that, as I read it, eliminates any semi-auto rifle. For example at least one poster has opined bull pup rifles would be spared but as I interpret the law and interpret the action of a bull pup rifle the bull pup rifle would still be banned based upon the action irregardless of whether or not it has a detachable magazine and irregardless of magazine capacity.

Looking again at the proposal as written (quoted below):
1. "Any grip". There are no exceptions. This is all inclusive.
2. "Any finger on the trigger hand ...... being directly below any portion of the action." This wording eliminates all conventional long guns. I can rationalize that the trigger of a bull pup, although not directly below the action as I define the action (i.e. receiver), is connected via a mechanism under the action to the action and thus part of the action and by the wording of this proposal would therefor be "below any portion of the action" and thus banned under this wording.

Based upon the wording of the proposal with the one key work of "under" an optimist would counter that you could design a gun with the trigger mechanism above the receiver or offset from the receiver but I cannot imagine that going over very well or being very ergonomic. And the blindly optimist would counter you could just shoot your weapon upside down.

From the proposal: "Any grip of the weapon, including any a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing;"
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:19 PM
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The Oregon Supreme Court has granted the NRA petition to block the initiative from going forward. The ballot title was inadequate and misleading.

The are at this this link.
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootdog View Post
The current group in the state capitol are very good at working quietly and behind the scenes. They don't attract a lot of attention so few people are really watching (or aware) of what is being done. This gun measure is just one issue.

Gathered 88,000 signatures when most in the state never knew it was being proposed. Apparently they stayed primarily in the major population centers like Portland and maybe Eugene or Salem.

Very corrupt and cynical group of ideologs in the state capitol.

Will it pass?.....Very well may....if it gets on the ballot and not challenged in court....largely due to support in the major population center in Portland metro area.
I agree 100%, they are a sneaky bunch. In the Rogue Valley our population center is Medford, which is pretty much in line with Eugene and the rest.

To me, the State of Jefferson never looked better. Too bad it will never happen. At least I have my revolvers.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER View Post
Laws like this really start to make revolvers look like the way to go.
For today at least. Somehow I don't think those folks are quite done yet.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:31 AM
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Final word until 2020:

As of last week, the measure was withdrawn. With additional requirements to change the title imposed by the Oregon Supreme Court, there was no more time to actually gather signatures by the July 6 deadline.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
As I was about to drift off to sleep, I realized it wouldn't be hard to create a fixture that would move the grip & trigger of the AR pattern rifle to the rear of the action. You'd end up with a trigger blocking safety and it'd really screw with the folks who have to have their nose on the rear sight, but I think it'd be doable.

I think the bullpup would be exempt.
What we really need is an outstanding PR campaign.
No they would just put a minimum over all length, too concealable.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:27 PM
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dacoontz dacoontz is offline
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This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon.... This is the proposal for a new Oregon....  
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Thanks for the info fellow Oregonians. I am moving to Medford in 5 days so I'll be there to join the battle and see if we can't tip the scales somewhat.

Dirty & hairy mentioned that Medford is in line with Eugene, but my very limited experience with people there don't seem to be anti-gun at all. Many seem to be very much for the 2nd amendment. Now Ashland is a different story. Also, I get the impression that local sheriffs in Southern Oregon have little to no interest in chasing after law abiding gun owners that may be affected by the previously discussed proposed legislation.
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Old 07-28-2018, 10:46 PM
Barefootdog Barefootdog is offline
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Very happy this got knocked down by the court....But they will be back and next time have their I's dotted and T's crossed.

i guess I over reacted when I started this thread...Good new is I learned more about how these things work...Appreciate all the input.
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Old 07-28-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dacoontz View Post
Thanks for the info fellow Oregonians. I am moving to Medford in 5 days so I'll be there to join the battle and see if we can't tip the scales somewhat.

Dirty & hairy mentioned that Medford is in line with Eugene, but my very limited experience with people there don't seem to be anti-gun at all. Many seem to be very much for the 2nd amendment. Now Ashland is a different story. Also, I get the impression that local sheriffs in Southern Oregon have little to no interest in chasing after law abiding gun owners that may be affected by the previously discussed proposed legislation.
Oregon is very quirky. It has this very liberal reputation, and some things, like the FFL requirement for all transfers, are a hassle.

But on the other hand, weíve always had open carry, and we became shall-issue on CCWs in 1989, more than 10 years before some of those supposedly gun-friendly Southern states.

In Southern Oregon especially, youíll find quite a few gun rights defenders that are pot-smoking hippie libertarians who donít have much else in common with standard pro-gun conservatives
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