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Old 08-17-2018, 08:07 PM
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Default Judge Sides with NRA, Disqualifies Washington Gun Control Initiative

17 Aug 2018
A Thurston County Superior Court judge sided with the NRA and Second Amendment Foundation
against a gun-control ballot initiative in the state of Washington.
https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ol-initiative/

Nice to see some rationality from the courts.
Please consider donating to the NRA and 2ndAF to help continue these efforts.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:46 AM
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Agreed. Donate until it hurts. I just upgraded my wife's NRA membership from annual to Life about a month ago and I also joined the 2nd Amendment Foundation as a Life Member this year...

...and I live in Washington State.

It's great to see us getting some high profile support from the national organizations. We do appreciate it!

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Old 08-18-2018, 01:25 AM
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We will see what the Washington SC has to say....
Knowing this state, I am not confidant in the out come...
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:21 AM
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More on this issue:
NRA-ILA | NRA Wins Lawsuit in Washington State, Prevents I-1639 From Appearing on Ballot
"The Thurston County Superior Court today ruled in favor of the National Rifle Association and ordered a writ of mandamus to prevent I-1639 from appearing on the ballot. The judge agreed the signature sheets did not comply with state law – the font size was too small to be readable and didn't include strikethroughs."

On the other hand:
"The initiative proponents will likely appeal the decision to the state Supreme Court and we will continue to advocate on behalf of our law-abiding members in the Evergreen state."

So SCTM(SW) is right. Vigilance must be eternal.
The "victory" seems very technical and has nothing to do with the meat of the matter.

(I was born in Seattle (1949) and after 2nd grade moved to Pullman for another 7 years before finally landing in CheeseLand.
I am quite sure I carry a few atoms of Plutonium from Hanford around with me.)
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkwood View Post
Agreed. Donate until it hurts. I just upgraded my wife's NRA membership from annual to Life about a month ago and I also joined the 2nd Amendment Foundation as a Life Member this year...

...and I live in Washington State.

It's great to see us getting some high profile support from the national organizations. We do appreciate it!

Randy

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"It's great to see us getting some high profile support from the national organizations."

Be nice if New Jerksey would get onto their radar. With the most recent changes our socially benevolent governor (koff, koff) Phil Murphy has so graciously bestowed upon us, we could use a little contentious intervention.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:16 PM
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"It's great to see us getting some high profile support from the national organizations."

Be nice if New Jerksey would get onto their radar. With the most recent changes our socially benevolent governor (koff, koff) Phil Murphy has so graciously bestowed upon us, we could use a little contentious intervention.
Isn’t NRA helping with the New Jersey carry permit and magazine ban cases?
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:33 AM
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Honestly, if you're interested in radical change in NJ, NY, etc, your best hope is the Supreme Court. Presuming we ever get the vacancies filled and also that they start taking gun control cases again.

My only fear is that a decision would be reached that reduced states' rights regarding Second Amendment issues. Good for me, not good for most of you guys.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:51 PM
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The Washington State Supreme Court just ruled unanimously that it will be placed on the November ballot. It's clearly in violation of the law but they don't care. They're so corrupt.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:20 PM
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Yeah, I just saw that. Totally sucks.
We are really going to have to get out the word about what a feces sandwich this initiative actually is....
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:04 PM
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Odd that one of the two biggest contributors has a collection of warplanes and tanks, and my 20yo won't be allowed to buy a Ruger 10/22.
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:17 PM
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The State Supreme court has overturned the lower court and ordered the initiative back on the ballot. I'll keep my opinions to myself to avoid getting my first ding.

State Supreme Court orders gun control initiative back on Washington’s November ballot | The Spokesman-Review
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:19 PM
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That is good news. At least we won one battle!
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:34 PM
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Not exactly:
Washington Supreme Court puts gun-regulation measure I-1639 back on November ballot
http://https://www.seattletimes.com/...vember-ballot/
State law
“does not allow for pre-election judicial review of the form, process, substance, or constitutionality of an initiative petition,”
according to the order.

Needless to say this will be the same court that may decide the constitutionality of the law if it passes.
Let's hope SCOTUS gets filled out by then.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Isn’t NRA helping with the New Jersey carry permit and magazine ban cases?
If they are, I haven't seen the indicators of it. I have to try to spread myself out more into other sources to find out more.
Even Evan Nappens' outfit has been quiet about what progress is being made. Tells me to just wait before doing something with my +10 round mags for the moment.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:37 PM
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"Y'all understand, this is just my opinion, right?"

Heaven forbid you exercise your 1st amendment rights to discuss the 2nd!
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:07 AM
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Here is more info from the NRA for those in the Spokane area of Washington state who are interested in doing something more than just talk about defeating this pile of legislative dung.
Quote:
Join Washingtonians and the National Rifle Association for Freedom in making calls to urge voters to cast their ballots opposing Initiative 1639. With ballots already received by voters, we have added phone banking days for Monday, October 22nd, Tuesday, October 23rd, and Wednesday, October 24th.
We will be meeting at Sharp Shooting Indoor Range on the corner of Trent and Freya. If you plan on joining us for calls, please bring a smart device and a pair of headphones or bluetooth headset. If you don't have either of these things, please let me know ahead of time so we can accommodate you with a loaner device or headset.

When: Monday, October 22nd 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Where: Sharp Shooting Indoor Range 1200 N Freya Way, Spokane, WA 99202

When: Tuesday, October 23rd 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Where: Sharp Shooting Indoor Range 1200 N Freya Way, Spokane, WA 99202

When: Wednesday, October 24th 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Where Sharp Shooting Indoor Range 1200 N Freya Way, Spokane, WA 99202

If you have any questions, or would like to know more about this event or other events happening in your area, please give me a call at (703) 708-4487, or email me at [email protected].

Yours in Freedom,

Ben Carpenter
(703) 708-4487
[email protected]
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:48 AM
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I'm not going to tell people how to vote, but my posts here probably give you an idea. There was a time in my life that I had to make decisions that impacted others based on laws I didn't agree with, and have been an active voter ever since.

But, if we get lax and don't vote, we will be steamrolled in many states (and therefore by extension Federal level), by people who are currently fired up by non-2A issues that you and I may not have on our radar. Those elected by those voters are not likely our friends.

GET OUT AND VOTE. NO Matter what state you live in!! Early vote if that's what it takes to guarantee you show up! I'm taking my neighbors to do that next week, first day! Hope to pass you in the parking lot (virtually, of course).
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:49 PM
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Not to challenge your position, but have been wondering if the US will ever get enough states willing to change the 2nd Amendment? My understanding of what it takes to change an amendment is the following.

Altering the Constitution consists of proposing an amendment or changing an amendment, then subsequent ratification. Amendments or changes to amendments may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a convention of states called for by two-thirds of the state legislatures. It is then necessary that two-thirds of both the House and the Senate plus 3/4 of the states are needed to ratify new amendments or make changes to existing amendments.

My biggest fear has been the possibility that the Supreme Court could interpret the 2nd Amendment to NOT mean the unlimited right to bear arms. A court with activist judges could ultimately pose a larger threat than the legislative branch or states could ever muster??

I would love to hear if this is how things really work or am I missing something?
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
Not to challenge your position, but have been wondering if the US will ever get enough states willing to change the 2nd Amendment? My understanding of what it takes to change an amendment is the following.

Altering the Constitution consists of proposing an amendment or changing an amendment, then subsequent ratification. Amendments or changes to amendments may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a convention of states called for by two-thirds of the state legislatures. It is then necessary that two-thirds of both the House and the Senate plus 3/4 of the states are needed to ratify new amendments or make changes to existing amendments.

My biggest fear has been the possibility that the Supreme Court could interpret the 2nd Amendment to NOT mean the unlimited right to bear arms. A court with activist judges could ultimately pose a larger threat than the legislative branch or states could ever muster??

I would love to hear if this is how things really work or am I missing something?
Gary,
Yes, this is a way things can work at the level of the written 2nd. What you are missing, as I see it, is that a legislature (at any level) that is anti-2A can create laws that allow the edges to be blurred until challenges and appeals overwhelm courts. Someone must pay the way for laws to be challenged, and there is more "anti" money than "pro" money.

I would rather see us vote in such a way that footholds they already have are lost, and that they gain no more.

The 2nd could easily be legislated and judicially interpreted into something very different from what we hope it should be and remain.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:18 PM
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...The 2nd could easily be legislated and judicially interpreted into something very different from what we hope it should be and remain.
COULD be?!? I would say HAS BEEN.
The language of the 2nd clearly says SHALL not be INFRINGED (a.k.a. impaired, restricted, limited).
There are already something like 22 THOUSAND gun laws on the books that restrict, limit, impair or otherwise INFRINGE on the rights of law abiding gun owners.
The 2nd Amendment has already been legislatively and judicially interpreted as something different than what the founding fathers clearly intended.
The camel's nose is already in the tent - and most of the rest of the camel too IMO.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:47 PM
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Oh, I understand the state's unchallenged attempts to modify and eliminate 2nd Amendment protection by certain states. I can only hope we get a Supreme Court case soon.

I also totally support your position to vote for pro-gun candidates. To me, that is a given and with the help of the NRA, the candidates are reviewed across the country.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:54 AM
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COULD be?!? I would say HAS BEEN.
The language of the 2nd clearly says SHALL not be INFRINGED (a.k.a. impaired, restricted, limited).
There are already something like 22 THOUSAND gun laws on the books that restrict, limit, impair or otherwise INFRINGE on the rights of law abiding gun owners.
The 2nd Amendment has already been legislatively and judicially interpreted as something different than what the founding fathers clearly intended.
The camel's nose is already in the tent - and most of the rest of the camel too IMO.
Those 22 thousand laws were likely passed by people using the phrase "if just one life is saved,". So we now have 22,000 more people still alive as a result? Yeah, uh-huh, right. How many good men and women died to preserve our Constitution? I've lost count, frankly.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:09 AM
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It's because of just this sort of thing that I have a life membership in the SAF. They've done a lot of good work, and brought the McDonald case to the Supreme Court, which I see as a huge decision for gun ownership rights.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:00 AM
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There is only 1 thing to say to anyone about proposed new gun control laws.

If the goal is to save lives, then why is alcohol still being sold? It is NOT protected by law, and causes far more deaths directly and indirectly than firearms, so there is something else going on. Or pure ignorance and wishfull thinking.

I live in Seattle, and have yet to see a Pro I-1639 anything FWIW.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
There is only 1 thing to say to anyone about proposed new gun control laws.

If the goal is to save lives, then why is alcohol still being sold? It is NOT protected by law, and causes far more deaths directly and indirectly than firearms, so there is something else going on. Or pure ignorance and wishfull thinking.

I live in Seattle, and have yet to see a Pro I-1639 anything FWIW.


Im about 40 miles south of you and as previously stated I have yet to see a single Pro 1639 sign.... its eerie.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
There is only 1 thing to say to anyone about proposed new gun control laws.

If the goal is to save lives, then why is alcohol still being sold? It is NOT protected by law, and causes far more deaths directly and indirectly than firearms, so there is something else going on. Or pure ignorance and wishfull thinking.

I live in Seattle, and have yet to see a Pro I-1639 anything FWIW.
If the goal is to save lives, then why are cars, trucks, vans, and SUV's still being sold? More people have died in the U.S. from motor vehicle accidents than from gunshot wounds.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
There is only 1 thing to say to anyone about proposed new gun control laws.

If the goal is to save lives, then why is alcohol still being sold? It is NOT protected by law, and causes far more deaths directly and indirectly than firearms, so there is something else going on. Or pure ignorance and wishfull thinking.

I live in Seattle, and have yet to see a Pro I-1639 anything FWIW.
They TRIED banning booze (Prohibition) and it failed to work. Guess Carrie Nation didn't think of the phrase "If just one life is saved,,,,,,,,," until the anti-booze people had moved onto other causes. She and her hatchet, remember?

Maybe follow the money? Lotsa moolah in the liquor industry. Perhaps a bullet tax would shut them up? Nah, didn't think so.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
If the goal is to save lives, then why are cars, trucks, vans, and SUV's still being sold? More people have died in the U.S. from motor vehicle accidents than from gunshot wounds.
The difference is that EVERYONE uses motor vehicles and they are used for multiple beneficial things. Transporting people and goods are essential.

Unlike guns, which have only a few legitimate uses (self defense, hunting, sport) and are only used by a limited number of people. For the vast majority, none of these uses are essential.

Booze on the other hand has few beneficial uses - other than its relaxing and/or intoxicating effects - relative to the amount of damage it causes. There is nothing essential about its use - unless you are addicted to it.

So IMO the comparison between guns and alcohol is much more valid than the comparison between guns and vehicles.
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Old 10-23-2018, 04:02 PM
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Join, Support, Contribute to the NRA.....

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Old 10-23-2018, 05:58 PM
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Alan Gottlieb does great work.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:35 PM
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There were some heinous mass killings in Asia done with knives in the recent past, but they don't get the coverage, because there is no upside to do that.

If someone wants to do a heinous deed, they will find a way. And common sense easily shows that a Marlin 60 isn't going to be the mode, but somehow, the idiots backing I-1639 are fearful of them for some idiotic reason.

Last edited by Racer X; 10-23-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
There were some heinous mass killings in Asia done with knives in the recent past, but they don't get the coverage, because there is no upside to do that.

If someone wants to do a heinous deed, they will find a way. And common sense easily shows that a Marlin 60 isn't going to be the mode, but somehow, the idiots backing I-1639 are fearful of them for some idiotic reason.
A Dodge Ram 250 can/will harm more than a Marlin, how hard is it to get one?
Here in Jersey they claim driving is a "privilege", not a right. 2A says nationally the firearms are our "right". Go figure.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:12 AM
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sorry, my post was just unnecessary venting.

Last edited by runscott; 12-19-2018 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
There is only 1 thing to say to anyone about proposed new gun control laws.

If the goal is to save lives, then why is alcohol still being sold? It is NOT protected by law, and causes far more deaths directly and indirectly than firearms, so there is something else going on. Or pure ignorance and wishfull thinking.

I live in Seattle, and have yet to see a Pro I-1639 anything FWIW.
... or , if their true rationale is to save lives, then why aren't they fighting tobacco, as that kills over 1,000 Americans every day? They love to cite numbers, and 1,000 a day could make for easy rhetoric to write for the daily "news" casts intended to engineer public opinion.

Last edited by vt_shooter; 12-18-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:17 AM
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Now that there is a federal tax on tobacco, congress has had little interest in further restrictions or punishment for producers of tobacco products. I'd wager that if there were federal taxes on firearms and ammo you would see law makers push a whole lot less for restrictions and bans.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:46 PM
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You mean something like the Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax (FAET), that was first imposed in 1919? The one that imposes a 10% tax on the sale price of pistols and revolvers and 11% of the sale price of other firearms and ammunition?

Sorry, but it really isn't about the money. At least not tax money.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:17 AM
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Just saying that when the federal government is getting tax dollars from the sale of something, they are not real keen on restricting or eliminating the sale of that item.
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