Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

2nd Amendment Forum Current 2nd Amendment Issues- Read the Instructions


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:56 AM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference

UPDATE 6.9.20
On June 8, 2020, the New Jersey "May Issue" case, and probably the nine other Second Second Amendment Petitions pending before the Supreme Court, were pushed again, this time to the Conference of June 11. The last conference before the Summer Recess is June 25 and the last announcement on Petitions before the Summer Recess is probably June 29.

UPDATE 6.3.20
On June 1, 2020, the New Jersey "May Issue" case, and the nine other Second Second Amendment Petitions pending before the Supreme Court, were pushed again, this time to the Conference of June 4. The last conference before the Summer Recess is June 25 and the last announcement on Petitions before the Summer Recess is probably June 29.

SECOND UPDATE 5.17.20
At least the New Jersey case was pushed to the May 21, 2020 Conference. I am not following the others.
Earliest result of that Conference is likely May 26, 2020, the Tuesday after Labor Day.

UPDATE 5.17.20
Nothing happened
Maybe we see something Tuesday May 26
Don't hold your breath

UPDATE 5.15.20
Various bloggers report that today, May 15, 2020, the Supreme Court is considering in Conference which - if any - of the TEN (10) Second Amendment/Firearms appeals that are pending will be heard on the merits. These bloggers predict that we could get important information Monday morning, May 17.

To me, the most important is the "May Issue" carry permit case out of New Jersey. The issues in the New Jersey case are:

1) Does the 2A grant People the Right to Bear Arms (outside the home). [Bushmaster's comment: Duh!];

2) Assuming there is a Right of People to Bear Arms [Duh!], can the State force the applicant for a carry permit to show that the person has a special personalized need to exercise their Right to Bear Arms over and above the need of the general public.

IMHO, Issue (2) goes way beyond just the Second Amendment. It actually goes to the question of do we want the Government to be able to force us to show:

a) Why do YOU need to practice THAT religion;

b) Why do YOU need to read THAT newspaper;

c) Why do YOU need a lawyer more than any other accused;

d) Why does YOUR group need to assemble;

e) What is so special about YOUR need to not self-incriminate;

f) What is so special about YOUR right to vote;

g) What is so special about YOU with respect to any other fundamental right protected by the Constitution.

Issues that will never be decided are:
Ford or Chevy
Vanilla or Chocolate Ice Cream
Ginger or Maryann

Stay tuned Boys and girls

UPDATE May 11, 2020
“Distributed for Conference of May 15, 2020.”

I hope we find out before the end of June if the Supreme Court will hear this case.

Till now, there were good reasons for the Supreme Court to wait. In particular, I think the Supreme Court wanted to hear a carry permit case out of the District of Columbia first. But that reason went away when the District chose to NOT appeal the decision declaring the District's ban on carry permits unconstitutional. IMHO, this time, there seems to be no judicial reason for the Supreme Court to push this important Constitutional issue off any longer. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has complete discretion in deciding whether or not it will hear this case.

UPDATE April 29, 2020

The Parties asking the Supreme Court to review New Jersey's "May Issue" carry permit laws filed a virtuoso Supplemental Brief on April 29, 2020:

Link to April 29, 2020 Supplemental Brief

From the Supplemental Brief:

Quote:
At issue in this case is a New Jersey law that
effectively bars ordinary, law-abiding citizens from
carrying handguns outside the home for self-defense.
Under N.J. Stat. Ann. §2C:58-4(c), a “private citizen”
(i.e., an ordinary New Jersey resident) cannot obtain
the permit necessary to carry a handgun in public
unless she can show “justifiable need,” which state law
defines as “a special danger to [her] life that cannot be
avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit
to carry a handgun.” (Emphasis added.) The statute
means what it says: “Generalized fears for personal
safety are inadequate, and a need to protect property
alone does not suffice.” In re Preis, 573 A.2d 148, 151
(N.J. 1990). Instead, a New Jersey citizen must
establish a “special” need for a permit that
distinguishes her from the ordinary people whose
rights are guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

New Jersey’s regime deems specific, entirely
reasonable fears for one’s personal safety insufficient.
The facts involving one of the petitioners starkly
illustrate this point. Petitioner Thomas Rogers was
robbed at gunpoint while working as the manager of a
restaurant, and his current work—running a large
ATM business within high-crime areas—places him at
a high risk of another crime. Pet.App.56a-57a. Yet
under New Jersey’s regime, that was not enough to
make Rogers “special,” see N.J. Stat. Ann. §2C:58-4(c)
(applicant must “specify in detail the urgent necessity
for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or
previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger
to the applicant’s life”), or “to establish Justifiable
Need” sufficient for a carry permit. Pet.App.64a.
Because Rogers’ “previous attack[]” was deemed
unrelated to his current work, and because his current
work, though undoubtedly dangerous, has not given
rise to documented “specific threats,” N.J. Stat. Ann.
§2C:58-4(c) (“Where possible, the applicant shall
corroborate the existence of any specific threats or
previous attacks by reference to reports of the
incidents to the appropriate law enforcement
agencies.”), the assigned Chief of Police denied Rogers’
application, and a judge on the Superior Court
affirmed. Pet.App.64a-67a. Petitioner Association of
New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, Inc., joined in this
lawsuit after another of its members was similarly
denied a permit on the basis of a failure to
“‘demonstrate a special danger to [his] life,’” even
though he too “has been threatened several times in
the past” and “frequently travels in remote areas for
his work.” Pet.App.58a-59a.

New Jersey’s law cannot be squared with the text,
history, or tradition of the Second Amendment, and
this case provides an ideal vehicle for this Court to
develop its Second Amendment law and correct the
mistaken approach of the Third Circuit and other
courts in applying watered-down scrutiny and
effectively rendering the Second Amendment a homebound right. The Second Amendment plainly protects
a right to keep and bear arms, and the decision below
is emblematic of decisions effectively denying the
second half of the framers’ guarantee.
Quote:
This case is an ideal vehicle to resolve that
question and erase all doubt about the Second
Amendment’s protection of a meaningful protection of
the right to keep and bear arms. First, “the New
Jersey law challenged in Rogers is a perfect
representative of the types of ‘good reason’-style
restrictions that have created the split of authority” on
the right-to-carry issue. Gould Pet. 18. Indeed, New
Jersey’s requirement that an applicant demonstrate
not mere danger, but a “special danger” that
distinguishes her from the rest of the people equally
protected by the Second Amendment, perfectly
captures what makes such regimes antithetical to the
guarantee enshrined in the constitutional text.
Quote:
This Court granted review of New York’s effort to
prevent its citizens from crossing the Hudson to
exercise their Second Amendment rights, but the
City’s tactics prevented the Court from clarifying its
Second Amendment jurisprudence for the people and
the lower courts. This case provides a suitable
sequel—indeed, a vital opportunity to ensure that the
promise of the Second Amendment extends not only
across the Hudson, but across the Nation.

UPDATE April 27, 2020:

Supreme Court just threw out the appeal of the NYC travel ban as moot. This was not unexpected.

However, as predicted here, now that the NYC case is gone the Supreme Court will now consider whether it should take up the New Jersey may issue carry permit law.

Link to Supreme Court Docket for New Jersey May Issue Case:

Quote:
Apr 27 2020 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of 5/1/2020.
As the Petition is Distributed for the Friday May 1, 2020 Conference, we could hear as early as Monday May 4, 2020 whether the Supreme Court will hear the New Jersey case now that the NYC case is gone.


Musings as of 12.16.19
Seems to me that the NJ case at the Supreme Court is waiting for something to happen at the Supreme Court with the NYC case.

In the NJ case the Petition for Certiorari has been fully briefed at the Supreme Court since May 2019 and remains in limbo.

In the NYC case Oral Argument was heard December 2, 2019 and a lot of the argument was about whether or not the case was moot.

If the NYC case is decided on the merits, I would expect the NJ case to be remanded back to the Third Circuit to be reconsidered consistent with the Supreme Court decision in the NYC case.

If the NYC case is declared moot, it is possible that Certiorari could be granted in the NJ case.


Update 10/4/19
The update is that there is no update
Still in limbo since May 2019

Update July 5, 2019

It looks official that there will be no action on the Petition for Certiorari until at least September 2019.

Update June 26, 2019

June 26, 2019, is the second to last day of open court at the Supreme Court and no word. Last day before Summer recess is June 28, 2019.

Update June 5, 2019
The good news is that following the May 23, 2019 Conference the Petition was not denied. The bad news is that nothing has happened since and the Petition is sitting in procedural limbo with the People necessarily relegated to keep and bear it mode while twiddling our collective right thumbs.


Update May 7, 2019
On May 7, 2019 the Briefs on the Petition for the Supreme Court to hear the case were “Distributed” for the “Conference” of May 23, 2019. This means that we could hear as early as May 28, 2019 whether the Supreme Court will hear the case. Unfortunately, on that date the Supreme Court could announce that it is taking the case, not taking the case or pushing off its decision as to whether it will take the case. When the Peruta case came up to the Supreme Court they pushed the decision many times until they finally announced that they would not hear the case.

Update May 3, 2019, 2019
On May 3, 2019, the Petitioners filed their Reply, further explaining why the Supreme Court should hear the case. In responding to New Jersey's arguments as to why the Supreme Court should not hear the case, the Petitioners argued in their Reply:

1. There really is a split in the Circuits.

2. The time has come for the Supreme Court to reject the opinions that do not follow the Supreme Court's reasoning in Heller

3. The New Jersey case is an excellent case to consider the issue of whether it violates the Constitution to require carry permit applicants to show "good reason."

4. The Constitution does indeed prohibit requiring a carry permit applicant to show "good cause."

Typically, this week the papers for and against the Supreme Court hearing the case would be "Distributed" for the "Conference" of May 23, 2019. At the Conference the nine Justices will vote whether to hear the case, with 4 votes needed to hear the case. Typically, we should know by the middle of June, and as early as May 28, 2013, whether the Supreme Court will hear the case.

On April 19, 2019 New Jersey filed its opposition to the Petition for Certiorari.

New Jersey stated the Question Presented as follows:
Quote:
For nearly two centuries, numerous states across
the country have required residents who wish to carry
a loaded firearm in public to establish a need to do
so. The question presented is whether the Second
Amendment prevents New Jersey from maintaining
such a law.
According to New Jersey's Opposition, the right to carry outside the home for self defense is not at the "core" of the Second Amendment.
Quote:
As the Third Circuit found, the core does
not include public carrying of firearms.
Therefore, according to New Jersey, the requirement to show a "justifiable need" is subject to "Intermediate Scrutiny." New Jersey goes on to argue that "justifiable need" passes Constitutional muster because New Jersey's law is sufficiently tailored to the furtherance of New Jersey's interest in "public safety", without burdening more conduct than is reasonably necessary.

Under U.S. Supreme Court Rule 15.5, the Petition and the Opposition will not be distributed for consideration by the Justices until at least May 3, 2019 (which is two weeks after April 19, 2019). If they want, under U.S. Supreme Court Rule 15.6, the Petitioners may file a Reply to the Opposition.


Update March 16, 2019:
On March 12, 2019 the State of New Jersey asked for a 30 day extension of the time to respond to the Petition for Certiorari, with consent by the pro-2A plaintiffs. On March 15, 2019 the Supreme Court granted the extension and the State's Response is now due on April 19, 2019.

Update February 19, 2019:
The state of New Jersey chose to not respond to the Petition for Certiorari, and on February 6, 2019, the case was set for Conference on February 22, 2019, so that the Justices could vote on whether to hear the Appeal. On February 19, 2019, the Supreme Court Docket says that New Jersey has been asked by the Supreme Court to respond to the Petition for Certiorari by March 21, 2019. This means that it will likely be until at least April 2019 before the Supreme Court votes on whether to hear the Appeal.

I read that if there is no response to a Petition for Certiorari the Supreme Court will ask for a Response before agreeing to hear the case. Therefore, now that the Supreme Court has asked for a Response, the pro-2A folks can take heart that the Supreme Court is seriously considering whether to hear this Appeal.

No Editorial Comments on this informational thread please
(I asked the Moderators to lock the original thread)

This case is an example of how supporting the NRA supports well-executed 2A litigation

Update February 6, 2019:
Distributed for the Supreme Court Conference of February 22, 2019. A Conference is where the Supreme Court votes to hear an Appeal
It takes the votes of 4 Justices for an Appeal to be heard. We could hear on February 25, 2019 if the Supreme Court will hear the case. On February 25 the Supreme Court could grant the Petition for Certiorari (decide to hear the case), deny the Petition for Certiorari (decide to not hear the case), or push a decision on hearing the case off to a future Conference.

Petition for Certiorari (the formal request that the Supreme Court hear the appeal) was filed December 20, 2018

The State of New Jersey did not file a Brief in opposition to the Supreme Court hearing the Appeal

All of the Amicus Briefs were by pro-2A organizations in favor of the Supreme Court hearing the Appeal. All of the Amicus Briefs were well written, especially the Brief of the NRA (signed by Paul Clement)

Link to the Petition for Certiorari here

Link to NJ Opposition to Petition for Certiorari here

Petitioners' Reply

Link to entire Supreme Court Docket here

Link to Amicus Brief of 22 Pro-2A States

Link to Amicus Brief of National African American Gun Association

Link to Amicus Brief of Law Enforcement Groups

Link to Amicus Brief of American Civil Rights Union

Link to Amicus Brief of National Rifle Association -- GO TEAM!

Link to Amicus Brief of Coalition of New Jersey Firearms Owners and the Second Amendment Foundation

According to the Petitioners, the issues presented to the Supreme Court for review:

Quote:

1.Whether the Second Amendment protects the right to carry a firearm outside the home for self-defense.

2. Whether the government may deny categorically the exercise of the right to carry a firearm outside the home to typical law-abiding citizens by conditioning the exercise of the right on a showing of a special need to carry a firearm.
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 06-15-2020 at 09:47 AM.
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 04-30-2019, 01:41 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

This is a related case out of New York,

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. City of New York, New York

The city tried to moot the case by stating that they were going to modify the regulations. They had moved for SCOTUS to hold the briefing schedule in abeyance until the city had drafted new regulations.

Yesterday, SCOTUS denied the motion, so the briefing schedule will continue. This case could be granted cert on its own or combined with the NJ case.

Also, the First Circuit denied the appeal in a MA right to carry case. That case will likely be appealed to SCOTUS as well.

Lots of activity going on.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #3  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:07 PM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Could you explain for the layman what all this means? Is SCOTUS going to hear all of these cases or not? Thank you!
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
  #4  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:20 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 27
Liked 346 Times in 124 Posts
Default

On my brief reading;
It seems as though if NJ were to win its case. Then they could ban concealed carry for law abiding citizens. That would set a precedent for other states to follow, or use.
Very, very, very bad for law abiding citizens.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:08 AM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

Great summary. The MA case, Gould v O'Leary is also a right to carry suit challenging the "May Issue" law.

It's similar to the NY and NJ challenges and a petition for a Writ of Certiorari was filed on April 1. If granted, that won't be heard until the fall session at the earliest.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
The Supreme Court already agreed to hear the case out of New York City. That case is about a New York City ordinance which says that a lawful handgun owner in New York City cannot take their unloaded gun to a Pennsylvania gun range or even to a second home in upstate New York. In response, New York City is trying to change the ordinance real quick so that the case becomes moot. If the ordinance is not changed the Supreme Court will almost certainly hear that case.

The New Jersey case is up in the air. After the Petition was filed the State of New Jersey chose to not file any brief on the question of whether the Supreme Court should hear the case. Then, the Supreme Court ordered New Jersey to file a brief explaining why the Supreme Court should not hear the case. Many consider this to be a signal that the Supreme Court is likely to decide to hear the New Jersey case. However, we will not know if the case will be heard until a decision on whether to hear the case is announced.

I do not know anything about the third case, which is out of Massachusetts, but if the Supreme Court decides to hear the New Jersey case I would expect it to also decide to hear the Massachusetts case.

IMHO the time is ripe for the Supreme Court to decide whether the right to carry is protected by the Second Amendment.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #6  
Old 05-04-2019, 12:19 AM
swsig's Avatar
swsig swsig is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 3,859
Liked 4,953 Times in 1,576 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Update May 3, 2019, 2019
On May 3, 2019, the Petitioners filed their Reply, further explaining why the Supreme Court should hear the case

On April 19, 2019 New Jersey filed its opposition to the Petition for Certiorari.

New Jersey stated the Question Presented as follows:


According to New Jersey's Opposition, the right to carry outside the home for self defense is not at the "core" of the Second Amendment....
Does this mean the State of New Jersey is arguing that the authors of the Second Amendment intended that members of a well-regulated militia could not carry their firearms outside of their homes?

Hmmph!
__________________
What, me worry?
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 05-07-2019, 03:13 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

Cases are pushed back for conference for many reasons. Sometimes, it's to give Justices on one side or the other to lobby each other for a decision. Other times, it's because Justices are counting potential votes, even before the case is even going to be heard, to try to determine if there is a likelihood of their position prevailing.

I seem to recall that in the case of Peruta, cert was denied because it was felt that the then existing composition of the Court made it likely that the decision of the 9CA would be upheld. As that decision had overturned the three judge panel ruling, it would have been very, very, bad for the Second Amendment.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #8  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:06 PM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Thanks for the updates
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
  #9  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:26 PM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Cases are pushed back for conference for many reasons. Sometimes, it's to give Justices on one side or the other to lobby each other for a decision. Other times, it's because Justices are counting potential votes, even before the case is even going to be heard, to try to determine if there is a likelihood of their position prevailing.

I seem to recall that in the case of Peruta, cert was denied because it was felt that the then existing composition of the Court made it likely that the decision of the 9CA would be upheld. As that decision had overturned the three judge panel ruling, it would have been very, very, bad for the Second Amendment.
We have no idea why the Supreme Court refused to hear the Peruta case. My hunch is that the Supreme Court was waiting to first hear a case out of the District of Columbia. Wrenn, out of D.C. would have been a good case, but lo and behold the pro-2A plaintiffs won at the D.C. Court of Appeals and Peruta never made it to the Supreme Court. Now that the issue was decided in favor of may issue in DC., I believe that there is nothing holding the Supreme Court back from hearing the case out of New Jersey.
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly
  #10  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:04 PM
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 32,939
Liked 31,235 Times in 10,744 Posts
Default

It’s 3pm, any news to report?
__________________
In memory of Labworm
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:10 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,590
Likes: 21,120
Liked 32,418 Times in 7,769 Posts
Default

The Supreme Court doesn't get in a hurry for anyone or anything. Period.
  #12  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:34 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

Not on the Orders List for today. Back to the waiting game.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:03 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,590
Likes: 21,120
Liked 32,418 Times in 7,769 Posts
Default

I suppose it's always fun to speculate about this and that, but until the Supreme Court actually does something, speculating is the same as guesswork.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:31 PM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Thumbs up

great point !
  #15  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:35 AM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Thanks for keeping us updated.
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
  #16  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:30 PM
fordson fordson is offline
US Veteran
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 814
Likes: 404
Liked 1,453 Times in 502 Posts
Default

Thanks for the continued updates. I suppose this is neither good nor bad news?
__________________
"Your other right........."
  #17  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:53 AM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,590
Likes: 21,120
Liked 32,418 Times in 7,769 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
No change as of 10.4.19.

NRA backed NJ carry permit case at U.S. Supreme Court. Still in limbo since May 2019.
The wheels of justice grind slowly.
  #18  
Old 10-04-2019, 02:02 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

SCOTUS doesn't officially reconvene until next Monday, the 7th. There could be a lot of decisions and orders released. It will be important to keep an eye on the news from the Court that day.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 04-28-2020, 07:38 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default

even if court hears + rules on it NJ will not comply with it for decades unless there is a complete change in state government + politics - just look how well the supreme court rulings have worked in DC + Chicago -
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 04-28-2020, 09:57 AM
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 32,939
Liked 31,235 Times in 10,744 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
even if court hears + rules on it NJ will not comply with it for decades unless there is a complete change in state government + politics - just look how well the supreme court rulings have worked in DC + Chicago -
Correct, they just ignore SCOTUS rulings, nothing will change unless the tyrants are voted out. Good luck in NJ. They may get Shall Issue but not carry, so what good is it?
__________________
In memory of Labworm

Last edited by ladder13; 04-28-2020 at 09:58 AM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:04 AM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

While I can see SCOTUS's point about ruling on a law that has been changed, it just means that NY and NYC will find another way to screw the gun owners in NY. This will then be challenged and another suit will ensue.

I agree that no matter what SCOTUS does about NJ, NJ will find a way not to comply. DC still doesn't have a workable permit system after all these years.
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:18 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default reality --- N.J.

right to bear arms was omitted when NJ constitution was rewritten over a half century ago -

chief law enforcement officers for state + counties are all political appointees that serve at will of their appointers -

judges are also political appointees + not elected by voters -

there is no voter ID at all - anyone can walk into polls , give name of deceased registered voter , scribble in book + vote - no need to be a citizen or speak English to vote - voter fraud runs rampant + if there is an investigation it is carried out by political appointees -

laws will only change when government + politics are changed first -
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 05-01-2020, 07:46 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default JMHO - facts + actuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
UPDATE April 29, 2020

The Parties asking the Supreme Court to review New Jersey's "May Issue" carry permit laws filed a virtuoso Supplemental Brief on April 29, 2020:

Link to April 29, 2020 Supplemental Brief
will prove meaningless + a waste of time - past precedent in NJ will weigh more on court + judges opinions then anything else
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:49 PM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
UPDATE May 11, 2020
“Distributed for Conference of May 15, 2020.”

I hope we find out before the end of June if the Supreme Court will year this case.
Thanks for the update.
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
  #25  
Old 05-15-2020, 03:37 PM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

UPDATE 5.15.20
Various bloggers report that today, May 15, 2020, the Supreme Court is considering in Conference which - if any - of the TEN (10) Second Amendment/Firearms appeals that are pending will be heard on the merits. These bloggers predict that we could get important information Monday morning, May 17.

To me, the most important is the "May Issue" carry permit case out of New Jersey. The issues there are:

1) Does the 2A grant People the Right to Bear Arms (outside the home). [Bushmaster's comment: Duh!];

2) Assuming there is a Right of People to Bear Arms [Duh!], can the State force the applicant for a carry permit to show that the person has a special personalized need to exercise their Right to Bear Arms over and above the need of the general public.

IMHO, Issue (2) goes way beyond just the Second Amendment. It actually goes to the question of do we want the Government to be able to force us to show:

a) Why do YOU need to practice THAT religion;

b) Why do YOU need to read THAT newspaper;

c) Why do YOU need a lawyer more than any other accused;

d) Why does YOUR group need to assemble;

e) What is so special about YOUR need to not self-incriminate;

f) What is so special about YOUR right to vote;

g) What is so special about YOU with respect to any other fundamental right protected by the Constitution.

Stay tuned Boys and Girls

Issues that will never be decided are:
Ford or Chevy
Vanilla or Chocolate
Ginger or Maryann
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 05-15-2020 at 03:44 PM.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 05-15-2020, 04:53 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

The Second Amendment has long been treated as a second-class right. It's long past time for that to stop.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:02 PM
zogger52's Avatar
zogger52 zogger52 is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
Liked 711 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Besides the point you are making, the fact that a person has to have a permit to exercise a Constitutional right is ridiculous. I doubt if any of the justices will see things this way though. Why they are scared to tackle key Constitutional issues like this I don't understand. Issues such as these are what the SCOTUS is all about.

BTW-Chevy, vanilla, Mary Ann.
__________________
Keep your cylinders clean!
  #28  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:07 PM
fordson fordson is offline
US Veteran
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 814
Likes: 404
Liked 1,453 Times in 502 Posts
Default

Thanks for the updates.
Question: Does concern for Public Safety EVER override Constitutional rights? If so, would/could NJ argue that in the interest of public safety a licensing system and justification for such are necessary because Unlike other Constitutional right, the 2A has an immediate impact on said Public safety if the right is abused.
If this was addressed previously, point me to the response and I’ll stand down.

Chevy
Chocolate
Ginger - oh, yeah!
__________________
"Your other right........."

Last edited by fordson; 05-15-2020 at 05:09 PM.
  #29  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:34 PM
delcrossv's Avatar
delcrossv delcrossv is offline
SWCA Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 4,762
Liked 6,459 Times in 1,706 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordson View Post

Chevy
Chocolate
Ginger - oh, yeah!
Yep. Without question.
__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611
  #30  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:38 PM
delcrossv's Avatar
delcrossv delcrossv is offline
SWCA Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 4,762
Liked 6,459 Times in 1,706 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordson View Post
Thanks for the updates.
Question: Does concern for Public Safety EVER override Constitutional rights? If so, would/could NJ argue that in the interest of public safety a licensing system and justification for such are necessary because Unlike other Constitutional right, the 2A has an immediate impact on said Public safety if the right is abused.
If this was addressed previously, point me to the response and I’ll stand down.
Yes, that's the argument they'll make- Although in States with no such restrictions there doesn't seem to be a problem.
__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611
  #31  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:59 PM
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 32,939
Liked 31,235 Times in 10,744 Posts
Default

Let NJ get Shall Issue like every other state got it, through their Legislature.
I want the case Justice Kavanaugh is looking for, the Big One as he recently put it. NJ ain’t it, imo.
I would contribute to the case benefitting the whole country.
__________________
In memory of Labworm

Last edited by ladder13; 05-15-2020 at 06:06 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 05-15-2020, 06:28 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

NJ isn't the only state that it will help. As a side issue, if SCOTUS ever decides that shall issue is the law of the land, will that include issuing to non residents?

Justice Thomas hinted at that in one of the IL cases. He voted with the majority, but in his separate but concurring opinion would have decided it by reviving "privileges or immunities" from the 14th Amendment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Let NJ get Shall Issue like every other state got it, through their Legislature.
I want the case Justice Kavanaugh is looking for, the Big One as he recently put it. NJ ain’t it, imo.
I would contribute to the case benefitting the whole country.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #33  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:13 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default

Washington D.C. + Chicago supreme court decisions have not helped them much at all , much less others , it has been years since decisions have been rendered there with no effect on other states at all -
  #34  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:30 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 7,392
Likes: 3,847
Liked 17,027 Times in 4,904 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordson View Post
Thanks for the updates.
Question: Does concern for Public Safety EVER override Constitutional rights? If so, would/could NJ argue that in the interest of public safety a licensing system and justification for such are necessary because Unlike other Constitutional right, the 2A has an immediate impact on said Public safety if the right is abused.
If this was addressed previously, point me to the response and I’ll stand down.

Chevy
Chocolate
Ginger - oh, yeah!
Public safety can be raised. But, then we kill way more people with cars than guns and nobody has to show a need for to drive and the right to drive is not protected by an amendment.

The 2nd is pretty clear, and the intent of the framers is also, no matter how much some want to confuse the issue. I believe the day is coming when the right to keep and BEAR arms will be affirmed for all the citizens.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:49 PM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
Washington D.C. + Chicago supreme court decisions have not helped them much at all , much less others , it has been years since decisions have been rendered there with no effect on other states at all -
Cook County had 74,000 carry permits in 2018.

That’s 3 out of every 200 people.
Discount kids and the very elderly, it’s probably one in fifty.

New Jersey had 496 carry permits in 2015 out of 8 million.
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 05-16-2020 at 10:55 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #36  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:46 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Cook County had 74,000 carry permits in 2018.

That’s 3 out of every 200 people.
Discount kids and the very elderly, it’s probably one in fifty.

New Jersey had 496 carry permits in 2015 out of 8 million.
FYI - did not mention Cook County at all , but Chicago - - your NJ. figures does not include retired LEO's - state law can be stricter but cannot conflict with federal law - Supreme court can rule on permits , but states can still rule on what is required + what restrictions , parameters , + costs are necessary to obtain them - only a major change in government will change anything here in NJ. -
  #37  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:32 AM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zogger52 View Post
the fact that a person has to have a permit to exercise a Constitutional right is ridiculous.
IMHO a permit to exercise a Constitutional right is fine if the baseline is that the permits must be granted fairly, without invasion of privacy, and at minimal cost. For example, Freedom of Assembly is a fundamental Constitutional right, but we do not want ten different groups showing up at the same place at the same time for a parade.

What is ridiculous is for the government to force a law-abiding citizen to prove that they have good and sufficient reason why they should be permitted to exercise a right guaranteed in the Constitution.
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 05-18-2020 at 12:57 AM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 05-18-2020, 05:14 AM
fordson fordson is offline
US Veteran
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 814
Likes: 404
Liked 1,453 Times in 502 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
IMHO a permit to exercise a Constitutional right is fine if the baseline is that the permits must be granted fairly, without invasion of privacy, and at minimal cost. For example, Freedom of Assembly is a fundamental Constitutional right, but we do not want ten different groups showing up at the same place at the same time for a parade.

What is ridiculous is for the government to force a law-abiding citizen to prove that they have good and sufficient reason why they should be permitted to exercise a right guaranteed in the Constitution.
This is the crux of the opposition’s position, isn’t it? That the 2A does not address rights to firearm ownership outside the home (and barely, reluctantly have the rights to firearms inside the home). So, if the 2A is not recognized as a Right by a State, then from their view point, one needs to justify to the state Why one need to exercise this “Right” outside your home? Throw in “concerns for Public Safety” and that’s their position.
When, if ever or under what conditions, does Public Safety override Constitutional Rights? Refer to my original question in post #28.
__________________
"Your other right........."

Last edited by fordson; 05-19-2020 at 05:18 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:43 AM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

No grants today. The "Beers" case was sent back to the Third Circuit with orders to moot as Beers is no longer a PP. Beers v. Barr involved a person who was a PP because of an involuntary commitment for mental health care.

None of the other 2A cases were denied, which is good.

Next Tuesday will be the next release of orders as Monday is a holiday.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #40  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:19 PM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default poor analogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
IMHO a permit to exercise a Constitutional right is fine if the baseline is that the permits must be granted fairly, without invasion of privacy, and at minimal cost. For example, Freedom of Assembly is a fundamental Constitutional right, but we do not want ten different groups showing up at the same place at the same time for a parade.

What is ridiculous is for the government to force a law-abiding citizen to prove that they have good and sufficient reason why they should be permitted to exercise a right guaranteed in the Constitution.
abundance of things in bill of rights require permits - parades , speeches in public places , parking permits on public lots , political rallies , + etc. - nothing in the bill of rights or constitution states that guaranteed rights are free + without restrictions - any power that is not absolutely guaranteed in constitution are relegated to the states as long as they do not conflict with federal law - until there is a major change in government + politics no court ruling will change anything with out decades of appeals + political litigation -
  #41  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:41 PM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default LEOSA

NJ does not even abide by federal law when it comes to LOESA - why would they listen to any court ruling with out any prolonged litigation - just the way politics are here for over a century - any changes will have to come at state level -

FLEOA and NJFOP jointly sue NJ for violating LEOSA | NJFOP
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #42  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:53 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,283
Likes: 7,029
Liked 13,244 Times in 5,217 Posts
Default

All of the cases have been relisted for conference on Thursday. Apparently the Justices are knocking off early for the long weekend.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
  #43  
Old 05-20-2020, 07:49 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default reality -

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Let NJ get Shall Issue like every other state got it, through their Legislature.
I want the case Justice Kavanaugh is looking for, the Big One as he recently put it. NJ ain’t it, imo.
I would contribute to the case benefitting the whole country.
totally true + accurate statement - every state that has achieved shall issue , right to carry has been done thru their state legislative action + never thru federal intervention -
  #44  
Old 05-21-2020, 11:20 AM
delcrossv's Avatar
delcrossv delcrossv is offline
SWCA Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 4,762
Liked 6,459 Times in 1,706 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
totally true + accurate statement - every state that has achieved shall issue , right to carry has been done thru their state legislative action + never thru federal intervention -
Cough, cough, Illinois, cough, cough.

But for the Federal case, it never would have been brought up in the legislature.
__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611
  #45  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:21 PM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default JMHO

Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
Cough, cough, Illinois, cough, cough.

But for the Federal case, it never would have been brought up in the legislature.
total conjecture - Feds had some bearing on Chicago but results were still local + state -
  #46  
Old 05-21-2020, 08:17 PM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

Quote:
More than 4,000 people have obtained gun permits from the D.C. police department to carry loaded, concealed firearms on the streets of the nation’s capital, according to data released this month.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...outputType=amp
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 05-21-2020 at 08:19 PM.
  #47  
Old 05-21-2020, 10:08 PM
delcrossv's Avatar
delcrossv delcrossv is offline
SWCA Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 4,762
Liked 6,459 Times in 1,706 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
total conjecture - Feds had some bearing on Chicago but results were still local + state -
Conjecture? I guess so , for someone from Jersey.

Speaking as someone from Illinois and with some involvement in Illinois politics, it wasn't going anywhere without the federal (7th Cir.) decision. Madigan saw the writing on the wall and mooted the case.
__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:24 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
it took 17 years from the time of the court decision for them to issue permits with any resemblance of regularity + still carries a rejection rate of over 60% - also there is now no licensed gun dealer in D.C. for residents to legally acquire a handgun - still numerous unreasonable policies + costs that severely hamper the process ! -
  #49  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:10 PM
bushmaster1313's Avatar
bushmaster1313 bushmaster1313 is online now
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 5,548
Likes: 462
Liked 12,769 Times in 2,564 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
it took 17 years from the time of the court decision for them to issue permits with any resemblance of regularity + still carries a rejection rate of over 60% - also there is now no licensed gun dealer in D.C. for residents to legally acquire a handgun - still numerous unreasonable policies + costs that severely hamper the process ! -
I think you might be mistaken. The decision which forced the District of Columbia to grant carry permits was decided July 25, 2017, less than three years ago. Under pressure from the anti-gun lobby, the District declined to appeal to the Supreme Court for fear that a decision by the Supreme Court would force New York City and New Jersey to grant permits. The permits in DC started issuing soon thereafter.

Here is a link to the decision out of DC.

Wrenn v. District of Columbia, No. 16-7025 (D.C. Cir. 2017) :: Justia

If you were thinking of Heller, that was decided by the Supreme Court in June 2008, just under 12 years ago, and it said nothing about “May Issue”.

If the Supreme Court invalidates New Jersey’s may issue and permits don’t start issuing within 60 days, the lawsuits that will follow will be fast and furious.
__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Last edited by bushmaster1313; 05-23-2020 at 11:31 PM.
  #50  
Old 05-24-2020, 07:41 AM
schutzen-jager's Avatar
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
Member
Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference Cert Denied :( NJ carry permit pushed to June 11, 2020 Conference  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: peoples republic of New J
Posts: 601
Likes: 586
Liked 849 Times in 337 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
I think you might be mistaken. The decision which forced the District of Columbia to grant carry permits was decided July 25, 2017, less than three years ago. Under pressure from the anti-gun lobby, the District declined to appeal to the Supreme Court for fear that a decision by the Supreme Court would force New York City and New Jersey to grant permits. The permits in DC started issuing soon thereafter.

Here is a link to the decision out of DC.

Wrenn v. District of Columbia, No. 16-7025 (D.C. Cir. 2017) :: Justia

If you were thinking of Heller, that was decided by the Supreme Court in June 2008, just under 12 years ago, and it said nothing about “May Issue”.

If the Supreme Court invalidates New Jersey’s may issue and permits don’t start issuing within 60 days, the lawsuits that will follow will be fast and furious.
just research the effects of court decisions - the Heller decision was done in 2008 + had no viable effect on other states - it took DC years to even pretend to comply with it requiring multiple additional court actions - any supreme court decision is open to stays + numerous appeals - how long did it take the civil rights act to fully take effect in all states ? - law suits might come on quickly , but will not be decided for years or decades - just wishful thinking that NJ laws will change with out change of legislation on state level -
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NRA backed case by ANJRPC challenging the Large Capacity NJ Magazine Ban bushmaster1313 2nd Amendment Forum 0 07-08-2018 11:33 PM
Update 6/19/18 NRA backed NJ CCW case Notice of Appeal filed bushmaster1313 2nd Amendment Forum 27 06-27-2018 11:05 PM
Links to Concealed Carry Reciprocity and NICS fix Bills at Congress.gov bushmaster1313 2nd Amendment Forum 5 12-06-2017 07:15 PM
U.S. House Passes NRA-backed National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Legislation anotherjohndoe 2nd Amendment Forum 26 12-08-2011 11:45 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)