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  #301  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:45 AM
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My local reps cancelled the town halls for today due to weather. They don't want to have a public discussion. In summary, they said - we don't care about gun owners. This is going to be worse than we thought. And longer. So go to Richmond Monday. And plan on a long fight to the SCOTUS. We are still going to lose something until we have Gov/House/Senate all backed to significant Republican majorities.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:00 PM
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My local reps cancelled the town halls for today due to weather. They don't want to have a public discussion. In summary, they said - we don't care about gun owners. This is going to be worse than we thought. And longer. So go to Richmond Monday. And plan on a long fight to the SCOTUS. We are still going to lose something until we have Gov/House/Senate all backed to significant Republican majorities.
did you see the post about 3 republican senators in Virginia senate voting for universal backround checks? here we had a republican senate with a comfortable majority who voted for cuomos safe act . the base of support has to be widened. demographics have changed and are still changing in virginia.
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Old 01-18-2020, 02:22 PM
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Email from GOA stated that they, and the VCDL, were going to court to seek an injunction against Northrams “state of emergency” dictate.
Doubt if it goes anywhere but at least someone is trying something.


https://gunownersofamerica.cmail20.c...F290B8E8FDC6A0
Denied, as expected.

RELEASE: VA Supreme Court Ignores Constitution, Keeps Gun Owners Disarmed at Lobby Day | Gun Owners of America

Their reason, the circuit court decided quickly.

https://www.wric.com/wp-content/uplo...GUN-OWNERS.pdf
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:37 PM
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Theyr'e pulling out all the stops when it comes to anything Virginia. I've been "shadow banned" on Youtube because of my commenting on all the latest Virginia gun videos. The other day, I posted something on CBS Youtube channel and later came home to find my inbox stuffed full of likes and replies...hundreds. Other comments on other videos I made were getting plenty of response, too. Well, seems around 7pm last night everything just stopped. My further comments had zero thumbs while all the others around it had multiple thumbs. Today I checked while logged in and all my comments are up. When I log out and return to that video, my comments disappear. A buddy of mine couldn't see any of my stuff, either. Sure enough, they've blocked me from public view...and only I can see my own stuff.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:14 PM
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Their reason, the circuit court decided quickly.
Now, that's one for the books. Amazing reasoning.
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  #306  
Old 01-18-2020, 04:43 PM
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Sounds like a decision in search of a reason.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:20 PM
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As Governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam really didn't have to "search for a reason" to ban guns on the capitol grounds for the duration of Lobby Day weekend. He's the governor. Boss Hog. The Man in Charge. The Virginia Constitution gives the governor (no matter who he is or what his political ideology is) the authority to formulate executive branch policies. I guess it's been that way for a long time.

There's no need to second guess the governor as to his reasons. Northam did give his reasons, and he put them in writing with his Executive Order Number Forty-nine (2020). Don't take my word for it. Forum members who are interested in reading it and maybe taking the issue to court again may click here.

As gun owners we don't like him, his reasons, or his executive order, but guess what? Northam doesn't care whether we like it or not.

The Virginia Supreme Court said they refused to overturn the ban because pro-gun attorneys failed to make a case for doing so. Six of the seven justices wrote, "The only information we have on which to resolve the weighty issues raised by the parties are pleadings accompanied by cursory attachments. Accordingly, the petition is refused.

Lobby Day is only one day away now. I hope it goes well.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:04 PM
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see ya'll there

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Old 01-18-2020, 08:58 PM
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We is not I, ever. Go Patriots.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:47 PM
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Quoting from one news source:

"The Virginia Citizens Defense League's yearly rally at the Capitol typically draws just a few hundred gun enthusiasts. This year, however, thousands of gun activists are expected to turn out. Second Amendment groups have identified the state as a rallying point for the fight against what they see as a national erosion of gun rights.

VCDL president Philip Van Cleave said he's heard from groups around the country that plan to send members to Virginia, including the Nevada-based, far-right Oath Keepers, which has promised to organize and train armed posses and militia."

To his credit, VCDL President Phillip Van Cleave has made it clear...or tried to...that it is a Lobby Day on the 20th and not a Protest Day. I'm not sure that everyone who's going to attend is on board with that thought.

I'm sure there'll be lots of hand-held signs and banners displayed...signs on sticks are banned. There'll probably be lots of American flags carried and displayed. Possibly some other flags as well. And I hate to say it, but I'll bet there'll be some Confederate flags displayed, or variations of it. I'd be happy to be wrong about that. All that's just speculation on my part, anyway.

I'll be hoping for no fights or brawls, and above all, no gunfire. Hoping the skinheads will stay away. There'll probably be anti-gun groups hanging around on the fringes, possibly shouting and carrying signs. Also hoping some clown doesn't set off a bunch of firecrackers or other fireworks.

I guarantee you the national media's gonna be on hand, waiting for someone to screw things up. This event will be covered in the media no matter what happens.

If this whole thing goes south, there's gonna be a bunch of people playing that other national pastime...the Blame Game.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:00 AM
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I see they arrested 3 more Base members, one of whom is charged with conspiring to kill 2 Antifa members.
I read something about that somewhere. Probably on some of that media people are complaining about not reporting on gun issues or what's happening in Virginia.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:37 AM
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Did the organizers of Lobby Day give any thought to the fact that Monday is a federal and state holiday?

No way to know for sure, I guess, but I was wondering if the Lobby Day activities will interfere or have any effect on the way people observe that holiday? It's usually accompanied by parades, marches, and/or demonstrations, some of which traditionally take place at or near the capitol buildings.

I haven't read about anyone addressing the issue. Or even mentioning it.

Maybe it's a non-issue, I don't know.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:20 AM
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Did the organizers of Lobby Day give any thought to the fact that Monday is a federal and state holiday?

No way to know for sure, I guess, but I was wondering if the Lobby Day activities will interfere or have any effect on the way people observe that holiday? It's usually accompanied by parades, marches, and/or demonstrations, some of which traditionally take place at or near the capitol buildings.

I haven't read about anyone addressing the issue. Or even mentioning it.

Maybe it's a non-issue, I don't know.
I believe that Lobby Day is something created by the Virginia legislature.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:08 AM
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Folks, I really want to post my take on this, but I don't want to be dinged. Therefore, I hope that this is a totally boring, uneventful gathering!
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:18 AM
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My thoughts on Monday come from the great theologian Mike Tyson;

"Everyone has a plan until they get lunch in the mouth. "


So my question for the State of Virginia; what IF 100,000 Armed Citizens show up.

Say when.............You have overstepped the Constitution!
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:06 PM
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Folks, I really want to post my take on this, but I don't want to be dinged. Therefore, I hope that this is a totally boring, uneventful gathering!
I know what you really mean...that you don't want to see any violence or anyone getting killed, hurt or arrested. No reasonable persons on either side of the debate want to see that. And, under normal circumstances, the odds are that the event will for the most part pass off peacefully. I expect some small group of hard core anti-gun agitators might egg on the crowd and a punch of two might be thrown...that is pretty much normal for such events these days. But let's be realistic here, this event IS a symbolic show of force. Tens of thousands of Armed Citizens converging on "ground zero" where the proposed legislation is to be voted on. There is a reason for the excessive numbers of protesters, and a reason they are bearing arms. This cannot be a "boring, uneventful gathering" if it is to make an impact. It at least has to make an impression on the current powers that be...and IMHO it has already sent a clear message. In some ways this is the culmination events going back decades to the 1934 NFA, up through the 68 GCA, 86 FOPA and the 1994 AWB. IMHO the Citizenry has been pushed about as far as they will go and they are determined to never cede another inch. The stakes are too high...in that what happens in Richmond over the next few days will set future precedent for the rest of the nation. That said, it simply cannot pass off as a "totally boring, uneventful gathering."
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:20 PM
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I don't buy such for 10 seconds. Bringing 10 thousand Virginia citizens together to remind legislators who they work for is a great idea, and likely to have real impact. Bringing the same folks together armed to a stupid and unnecessary risk to participants and legislators alike, IMO.

Strong emotions and firearms is as bad a mix as firearms and alcohol as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 01-19-2020, 12:26 PM
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I don't buy such for 10 seconds. Bringing 10 thousand Virginia citizens together to remind legislators who they work for is a great idea, and likely to have real impact. Bringing the same folks together armed to a stupid and unnecessary risk to participants and legislators alike, IMO.
I'm not sure we agree, then. The Citizens of Virginia have 1. the right to peaceful assembly 2. the right to bear arms...and if you want to split hairs, they own the Capitol Bldg. and they both elect and pay the salaries of elected officials.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:32 PM
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No need to agree or disagree. I've seen enough human misery to have no interest in seeing or hearing about more.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:02 PM
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It just seems like now they are going after the 1st Amendment too. Sure, people are allowed to assemble and protest...but now "They" are imposing their own impromptu conditions on it by passing last-minute legislation. What does it say when you, as a Citizen, are allowed to assemble and voice your opposition, but you can only do it in designated areas surrounded by police and can only enter after being searched? And I guess to get there you also have to walk past a gauntlet of "counter protesters" who are usually bused in from out of state by some interest group funded by an individual with deep pockets. It ain't a pretty picture...and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse as time goes on.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:03 PM
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It just seems like now they are going after the 1st Amendment too. Sure, people are allowed to assemble and protest...but now "They" are imposing their own impromptu conditions on it by passing last-minute legislation.
I don't know about the earlier ban on firearms in capitol buildings, but there was no "last minute legislation" involved in banning guns on the capitol grounds for this event. That came about as a result of Governor Northam's Executive Order Number Forty-nine (2020). See post #307 of this thread, click the link provided, and read it for yourself.

The governor has Constitutional authority over the capitol and its grounds, and he's exercising that authority.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:27 PM
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Very revealing thread, well more like what I already knew, thank you OP.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:05 PM
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Since the Virginia Supreme Court upheld Northam's ban on firearms and other weapons on capitol grounds, I wonder if Phillilp Van Cleave will leave his Puppy Pistol at home for Lobby Day.

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Old 01-19-2020, 09:24 PM
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Default Latest News from Richmond about Lobby Day 2020

Richmond officials seem to be taking the whole thing a lot more seriously than Lobby Days in the past.

It's probably a good thing they are, since Governor Northam seems hell bent on riding roughshod over the Second Amendment rights of Virginia's gun owners.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch has a good bit to say about it. Interested forum members may read some of it by clicking here.

Briefly, one part of their article shows just how seriously officials are taking this:

"Lawmakers plan to go on with their business as usual. But already, an event memorializing the dozens of victims of gun violence in Virginia this year, and another honoring the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. during the state holiday in his honor, have been canceled due to safety concerns. Nonessential state employees have been asked to stay home."

What Northam and his posse need to do is stop throwing out stuff about the Charlottesville incidents of 2017. They need to stop throwing gasoline on that fire now. Stop waving that red flag in front of a whole bunch of bulls, if it isn't already too late.

Oh, and they should stop making the capitol grounds look like some type of armed fortifications. Northam is simply going overboard with his show of...well, whatever it's a show of.

Anyway, click the link above and read the latest.






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Old 01-19-2020, 10:36 PM
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Won’t be like that sorry *** “rally” organized last week.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:39 PM
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It may well be paranoid, but it’s beginning to look like we’re being set up.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:42 AM
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Folks, I really want to post my take on this, but I don't want to be dinged. Therefore, I hope that this is a totally boring, uneventful gathering!

DITTO !!
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:59 AM
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Default Live stream

Breitbart has a live stream. Lot of articulate people getting interviewed.

Watch Live: Pro-2A Americans Come to Virginia to Rally for Gun Rights

Here's another live stream.

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Old 01-20-2020, 11:17 AM
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Scripted reporting from the loons on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc .
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:49 AM
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^^^ NO surprise there.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:23 PM
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The left has a full time staff waging a PR battle against us. We have been shamed at every turn so that we are backed into a corner. Nothing we do will ever come out in our favor in the media. The left only sees today as an opportunity to further their cause. Tomorrow it is back to business as usual. A peaceful protest will accomplish nothing as will a day of trouble accomplish nothing good. The only true solution is for the supreme court to settle the matter once and for all but there is zero chance of that ever happening.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:36 PM
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VCDL and GOA, kudos for organizing this.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:40 PM
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Trying to listen to some of it on WRVA 1140 AM news radio. Evidently the public address system is either not working or is insufficient and the media feed is not working at all.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:15 PM
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To his credit, VCDL President Phillip Van Cleave requested that Lobby Day attendees not bring their long guns to the event.

"In their press release, they (the VCDL) wisely urged folks to leave their long guns at home. If you are asking how you can help with VCDL’s mission, carrying long guns at Lobby Day is not helpful – it is a distraction. VCDL’s important messages inevitably get lost as the press rushes to get pictures of anyone carrying an AR or AK. The stories then become about the rifle, not VCDL’s agenda."

Well, so much for that request.

Looks as if a whole bunch of people made the choice to obviously ignore the Big Dog's request. I wonder if they realize they've played right into Northam's and the anti-gun media's hands? Perhaps they just don't care. In addition to just looking ridiculous, some of them look like every anti-gun person's worst nightmare.

Nothing like reinforcing the anti-gunners' stereotypical images of gun owners to get your pro-gun point across. Van Cleave was right...the press eats this scat up with a spoon.

Some folks never learn.


People who are part of an armed militia group arrive near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va. January 20, 2020.
(Reuters)


A person carrying a gun stands near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va. Jan. 20, 2020. (Reuters)


Demonstrators stand outside a security zone before a pro-gun rally, Jan. 20, 2020, in Richmond, Va. (Reuters)


People who are part of an armed militia group walk near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va., Jan. 20, 2020. (Reuters)
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:19 PM
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The above photos are just embarrassing. We're going to lose this argument.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:29 PM
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THIS is why the NRA wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:49 PM
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Default Had I been at the Capitol today

Which was impossible as I am laid up with the worst winter cold I have had in years, I would have donned a suit and tie (and a topcoat for sure) and politely approached any news person I could have to offer my views.

Which would have been that I plan to oppose reelection of those who vote for the proposed gun control bills AND donate money to their opponents in the 2021 election.

There is absolutely no need IMHO to tote long guns as visible symbols of one's political position and as many have pointed out, this will only serve to give gun control advocates more fuel for their stereotypical propaganda.

We can only pray that no violence occurs. Then we must start again tomorrow and work in every way possible to thwart passage of these bills.

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Old 01-20-2020, 03:26 PM
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I just got back from it and I believe it was a TOTAL success. There were a few that went extreme, as there always is.
I saw that pair wearing the FDE outfits talking and joking with LEOs.
No violence, not even rudeness was witnessed.
One thing I did witness was a reciprocal show of respect with LEOs.
If they were told to brace for trouble, I think they were pleasantly surprised.
Just my observations.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:38 PM
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To his credit, VCDL President Phillip Van Cleave requested that Lobby Day attendees not bring their long guns to the event.

"In their press release, they (the VCDL) wisely urged folks to leave their long guns at home. If you are asking how you can help with VCDL’s mission, carrying long guns at Lobby Day is not helpful – it is a distraction. VCDL’s important messages inevitably get lost as the press rushes to get pictures of anyone carrying an AR or AK. The stories then become about the rifle, not VCDL’s agenda."

Well, so much for that request.

Looks as if a whole bunch of people made the choice to obviously ignore the Big Dog's request. I wonder if they realize they've played right into Northam's and the anti-gun media's hands? Perhaps they just don't care. In addition to just looking ridiculous, some of them look like every anti-gun person's worst nightmare.

Nothing like reinforcing the anti-gunners' stereotypical images of gun owners to get your pro-gun point across. Van Cleave was right...the press eats this scat up with a spoon.

Some folks never learn.


People who are part of an armed militia group arrive near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va. January 20, 2020.
(Reuters)


A person carrying a gun stands near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va. Jan. 20, 2020. (Reuters)


Demonstrators stand outside a security zone before a pro-gun rally, Jan. 20, 2020, in Richmond, Va. (Reuters)


People who are part of an armed militia group walk near the Virginia State Capitol building to advocate for gun rights in Richmond, Va., Jan. 20, 2020. (Reuters)
Meh. VA is still an open carry state. Those folks were completely within their rights. No need to go all "Chicken Little" just because some folks wanted to show up in kit. Big media will play it as they like regardless of what we do.So I'm not concerned about how this will play. Actually a combination of being too accommodating and plain old apathy got us to this point in the first place.

In watching 4 hours of live streaming I don't think I've ever seen a more polite crowd. That leads me to think the media will try to sweep this under the rug as soon as possible.
"OMG! Look at all those people with GUNS! What happened?!?"
"Umm. Nothing."

I'd chalk it up as a success.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
I just got back from it and I believe it was a TOTAL success. There were a few that went extreme, as there always is.
I saw that pair wearing the FDE outfits talking and joking with LEOs.
No violence, not even rudeness was witnessed.
One thing I did witness was a reciprocal show of respect with LEOs.
If they were told to brace for trouble, I think they were pleasantly surprised.
Just my observations.
Great news, despite what the MSM and their cohorts on the net wish to believe. God bless America.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:32 PM
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Meh. VA is still an open carry state. Those folks were completely within their rights. No need to go all "Chicken Little" just because some folks wanted to show up in kit. Big media will play it as they like regardless of what we do.So I'm not concerned about how this will play. Actually a combination of being too accommodating and plain old apathy got us to this point in the first place.

In watching 4 hours of live streaming I don't think I've ever seen a more polite crowd. That leads me to think the media will try to sweep this under the rug as soon as possible.
"OMG! Look at all those people with GUNS! What happened?!?"
"Umm. Nothing."

I'd chalk it up as a success.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:59 PM
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I’m with delcrossv. I tend to agree there was no great harm in the good folks showing up with their ARs. I’d prefer to see them without the camo, vests, armor, etc, and with chamber flags, but I guess it all worked out OK. Somehow we need to convince the “disinterested majority” that it really isn’t the gun that causes trouble, it’s the person holding it who either does or doesn’t - and that if “our” rights are taken away, whether they choose to exercise them or not, theirs will be gone, too! The MSM isn’t about to make those points for us.

Glad to hear this demonstration went off without incident.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:07 PM
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Great news, despite what the MSM and their cohorts on the net wish to believe. God bless America.
Their just upset that despite all the evil and armed gun owners, it turned out to be safer than taking a 10 minute walk in Baltimore or Chicago.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:15 PM
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I’m with delcrossv. I tend to agree there was no great harm in the good folks showing up with their ARs. I’d prefer to see them without the camo, vests, armor, etc, and with chamber flags, but I guess it all worked out OK. Somehow we need to convince the “disinterested majority” that it really isn’t the gun that causes trouble, it’s the person holding it who either does or doesn’t - and that if “our” rights are taken away, whether they choose to exercise them or not, theirs will be gone, too! The MSM isn’t about to make those points for us.

Glad to hear this demonstration went off without incident.
I would agree, but take it a bit further. The "disinterested majority" needs to be convinced that its not just the AR's that a majority of them really don't care about, its also the deer rifle they dust off once a year to deer hunt. Or the shotgun they bird hunt with. They need to be convinced that these people are coming for it all. If they fail in taking it, they make owning and using any firearm so complicated and expensive that people just give up trying...incremental steps is how they will do it.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:34 PM
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I would agree, but take it a bit further. The "disinterested majority" needs to be convinced that its not just the AR's that a majority of them really don't care about, its also the deer rifle they dust off once a year to deer hunt. Or the shotgun they bird hunt with. They need to be convinced that these people are coming for it all. If they fail in taking it, they make owning and using any firearm so complicated and expensive that people just give up trying...incremental steps is how they will do it.
Amen! That's been the plan since the NFA.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:35 PM
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I just got back from it and I believe it was a TOTAL success. There were a few that went extreme, as there always is.
I saw that pair wearing the FDE outfits talking and joking with LEOs.
No violence, not even rudeness was witnessed.
One thing I did witness was a reciprocal show of respect with LEOs.
If they were told to brace for trouble, I think they were pleasantly surprised.
Just my observations.
folks even paid attention to the walk don't walk signs. polite crowd ... Virginia battles ahead...

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Old 01-20-2020, 07:53 PM
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If they fail in taking it, they make owning and using any firearm so complicated and expensive that people just give up trying...incremental steps is how they will do it.
Yep. The ol' eating-the-elephant-one-bite-at-a-time strategy.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:16 PM
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Folks wearing helmet and body cams, smart folks.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:20 PM
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I read this on the 'net, from a story by The Guardian.

"Shannon Watts, the founder of gun control group Moms Demand Action, condemned the rally.

“Armed insurrectionists who threaten violence and lawlessness if they don’t get their way don’t represent the majority of Virginians,” she said."

I also saw pictures of our folks picking up trash off of the streets.
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:06 AM
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Imagine how effective the rally might have been if all of the gun rights lobbyists (that was the purpose, to lobby legislators not to change gun laws) had worn normal (specifically non-wannabe soldier) clothing, or perhaps even hunter orange, carried patriotic signs, maybe signs saying 'Responsible Concealed Carry Permit Holder,' and only US flags.

Last edited by biku324; 01-21-2020 at 02:09 AM.
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